Mucho P2P
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Post by Mucho P2P on Jan 12, 2019 13:01:26 GMT
Trust will take a long time. Like fixing a broken plate the crack is always there to remind you. There is still a difference in mistrust which can be overcome with evidence to show improvement and paranoia which no matter what taints you perspective. A few here are paranoid." A few here are paranoid. " <------------- I think it is more of a case of sceptical, rather than paranoid. Several times in the past, items were sold by FS for less than I would have offered. Is there a reason why FS do not offer the items to their lenders as a first option when they need to dispose of the item and realise its value? Several times in the past I would have appreciated the opportunity to purchase an item, only to find out that it was sold for less than I was prepared to offer!
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jan 12, 2019 13:05:55 GMT
Just because you are paranoid does not mean they aren't against you...
I would say a lot of FS investors are like me - worried ! As of today there seems, to me, to be a lot of evidence to support this viewpoint...
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Jan 12, 2019 14:06:36 GMT
Even though the market was small there is a market . You can't force someone to buy. So valuer was correct if stone was stolen then insurance would pay the valuation amount. if great effort was put into the sale perhaps a higher price could have been attained but the effort may not have been worth it.
You can't expect multiple valuations that's why you have professionals. At some point you have to trust them. It is ok to look back after the fact and accuse them of an error. Unless nearly all this valuers items were wrong then it's just sod's law the occasional valuation may be different from prevaling market conditions.
Roses (artificial and fresh) are thee times or more the price on valentines's day so what is the value of a rose if you were insuring them ?
If the market is small, so is the Demand and the Valuation should reflect that. A small market doesn't justify a 90% over-valuation at all. The whole point is, they should have known about it (small market, blah blah ...) and should have Clarified that the Valuation was only for Insurance Purposes and might not achieve even 50 % of it in Real Life. Clear breach. Point no 3, as mentioned by mjc definitely applies. To get this in perspective, I think this was about 900% overvalued, if it was only worth 10% of it valuation, but I’m no mathematician. If £100k to £10k, was 100% overvalued it would be £20k, etc. Either way, I wish I’d never got involved with FS, but sorry - if that’s being paranoid, just that I can make more or better platforms by being less greedy. Less (interest) is more (returns).
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arby
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Post by arby on Jan 12, 2019 15:05:15 GMT
If the market is small, so is the Demand and the Valuation should reflect that. A small market doesn't justify a 90% over-valuation at all. The whole point is, they should have known about it (small market, blah blah ...) and should have Clarified that the Valuation was only for Insurance Purposes and might not achieve even 50 % of it in Real Life. Clear breach. Point no 3, as mentioned by mjc definitely applies. To get this in perspective, I think this was about 900% overvalued, if it was only worth 10% of it valuation, but I’m no mathematician. If £100k to £10k, was 100% overvalued it would be £20k, etc. Either way, I wish I’d never got involved with FS, but sorry - if that’s being paranoid, just that I can make more or better platforms by being less greedy. Less (interest) is more (returns). You mean less interest is more certain returns. Are you denying that with a combination of careful and lucky loan selection one can get over 15% on FS? With such a potential reward also comes high volatility of the end result. Most of us knew this coming into the game, and maybe it turns out the deck was stacked more against us than we initially assumed, but so many people talk as if nobody makes money with FS. That's total rubbish. From looking at the loan data an average result would be slightly better than breaking even. I accept that lots of people have lost money, but that is balanced out by lots of people making money. We are all playing the game, but I'd guess that most of us thought that we were the smart ones who wouldn't be caught with our pants down...  Reality can leave us with a frost bitten ass.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Jan 12, 2019 16:49:55 GMT
Arby I think it would be more accurate to say that a very few people have or are making money but the vast majority of people "investing" are losing not just interest but even worse - their capital. Relying on "lucky selection" to achieve a return of your capital and perhaps even a very modest interest smacks of gambling. Perhaps I'd be better buying lottery tickets and hoping for a "lucky selection".
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arby
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Post by arby on Jan 12, 2019 16:53:23 GMT
Arby I think it would be more accurate to say that a very few people have or are making money but the vast majority of people "investing" are losing not just interest but even worse - their capital. I understand that is the consensus of the most vocal members of the forum, but the loan stats simply don't back that up. Could it be possible that the people who have lost money and feel aggrieved have the most incentive to post?
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Jan 12, 2019 17:11:58 GMT
Arby I think it's possible that you will find that the "most vocal" members of the forum who are posting are those who were stupid enough to believe the LTV that FS claimed in the loan offer. I must admit as a lender in Whitehaven, the Turbine, the Garnet etc that I believed FS's valuation - shame to be so disappointed that the valuations they used were so "optimistic" or basically were hugely and totally inaccurate. Or are you claiming that the LTV was accurate and the items lost value to the tune of up to 95% during the period they were on loan.
I sold all the loans I could about 6 months ago and I'm still stuck with 9 loans that I believe will all lose me varying amounts of capital - despite the claims from FS that each and every loan was under 65% LTV!!!!!!
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Jan 12, 2019 17:40:55 GMT
To get this in perspective, I think this was about 900% overvalued, if it was only worth 10% of it valuation, but I’m no mathematician. If £100k to £10k, was 100% overvalued it would be £20k, etc. Either way, I wish I’d never got involved with FS, but sorry - if that’s being paranoid, just that I can make more or better platforms by being less greedy. Less (interest) is more (returns). You mean less interest is more certain returns. Are you denying that with a combination of careful and lucky loan selection one can get over 15% on FS? With such a potential reward also comes high volatility of the end result. Most of us knew this coming into the game, and maybe it turns out the deck was stacked more against us than we initially assumed, but so many people talk as if nobody makes money with FS. That's total rubbish. From looking at the loan data an average result would be slightly better than breaking even. I accept that lots of people have lost money, but that is balanced out by lots of people making money. We are all playing the game, but I'd guess that most of us thought that we were the smart ones who wouldn't be caught with our pants down... Reality can leave us with a frost bitten ass. Most people are honest, and perhaps gullible enough to believe what crud a regulated platform feed us. In Futures and FX gambling most punters lose money, about 85% I believe. They were eventually forced to state the figures I understand. Yes I was gullible, and impressed by the response from a few of the p2p platforms, but in my opinion they are sharks. I realise several here aggressively push their outstanding gains 15, 18% even. But that of course means finding new mugs to flog their high risk loans to before the vultures come home to roost. This is barely ethical, and certainly not sustainable. Good luck to you in making money whilst you can, but with the FS farcical updates, fantasy valuations and high defaults, I would like anyone searching for FundingSecure performance in the eyes of an average investor, if it rankles so be it, ”average result would be slightly better than breaking even”. Yes I think we can agree on that. I hope that, in a few years I may do slightly better than break even, perhaps 1 to 3% any more and I will be pleasantly surprised. (But it will probably turn out to be a loss). I feel far more relaxed with 5 or 7% for scant effort with AC or HNW. But if anyone wants to gamble, let them - but with their eyes wide open.
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arby
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Post by arby on Jan 12, 2019 17:53:30 GMT
Most people are honest, and perhaps gullible enough to believe what crud a regulated platform feed us. despite all the rightful complaints against FS, I don't think anyone so far has claimed their provided loan data history is incorrect. This is what i'm basing my view on that there isn't a majority of people making a loss.
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arby
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Post by arby on Jan 12, 2019 17:55:42 GMT
Arby I think it's possible that you will find that the "most vocal" members of the forum who are posting are those who were stupid enough to believe the LTV that FS claimed in the loan offer. I must admit as a lender in Whitehaven, the Turbine, the Garnet etc that I believed FS's valuation - shame to be so disappointed that the valuations they used were so "optimistic" or basically were hugely and totally inaccurate. Or are you claiming that the LTV was accurate and the items lost value to the tune of up to 95% during the period they were on loan.
I sold all the loans I could about 6 months ago and I'm still stuck with 9 loans that I believe will all lose me varying amounts of capital - despite the claims from FS that each and every loan was under 65% LTV!!!!!!
I think we agree then; that most posters have an axe to grind. The people doing just fine won't post as much.
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Jan 12, 2019 18:02:04 GMT
Most people are honest, and perhaps gullible enough to believe what crud a regulated platform feed us. despite all the rightful complaints against FS, I don't think anyone so far has claimed their provided loan data history is incorrect. This is what i'm basing my view on that there isn't a majority of people making a loss. I’m not saying the loan data stats are wrong. Their updates are slapdash, fanciful, over-optimistic, not even specious, unreliable, misleading, shall I go on? “The people doing just fine won't post as much.” but I thought you were one of the winners?
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arby
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Post by arby on Jan 12, 2019 18:10:09 GMT
despite all the rightful complaints against FS, I don't think anyone so far has claimed their provided loan data history is incorrect. This is what i'm basing my view on that there isn't a majority of people making a loss. I’m not saying the loan data stats are wrong. Their updates are slapdash, fanciful, over-optimistic, not even specious, unreliable, misleading, shall I go on? “The people doing just fine won't post as much.” but I thought you were one of the winners? I've never said the updates were anything other than a joke. I simply ignore them and wait for a repayment or renewal notice. I've never said I'm a winner, what I say is that my performance so far is in the range I deemed acceptable before starting out. I think you'll find I also said I lost hundreds in this specific loan.
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Post by investor1925 on Jan 12, 2019 18:31:13 GMT
I used FS as my IFISA for 2017/18 so didn't put any cash in or out after 5/4/2018.
Since April 2018 I have made 6.91% overall, which includes defaults such as the Garnet.
That month, my total invested went down by only 0.62%.
On my best month I made 12.91%, which were overdue loans finally being paid back or renewed
Yes they should get the valuations better (we'd all be happier & make more cash)
Yes they could offer some of the bling to investors (I'd have bought the garnet at that price)
On the whole I'm reasonably happy
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 12, 2019 20:02:54 GMT
Trust will take a long time. Like fixing a broken plate the crack is always there to remind you. There is still a difference in mistrust which can be overcome with evidence to show improvement and paranoia which no matter what taints you perspective. A few here are paranoid." A few here are paranoid. " <------------- I think it is more of a case of sceptical, rather than paranoid. Several times in the past, items were sold by FS for less than I would have offered. Is there a reason why FS do not offer the items to their lenders as a first option when they need to dispose of the item and realise its value? Several times in the past I would have appreciated the opportunity to purchase an item, only to find out that it was sold for less than I was prepared to offer! Since there is a legal debacle going on at the moment (Lendy London loan) as to who actually ultimately is responsible for ownership of loans. You have a good point any items offered for sale at auction should not be finalised until lenders have been asked if any of them were prepared to buy at auction price without commission . I would have bought Whitehaven for the 30K and just put a car park on the ground. 🚗
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Jan 12, 2019 23:12:28 GMT
This has really not done FS’s reputation a bundle of good.
End Nov last, TP score was
FundingSecure 97 Reviews
57% 5*
5
8
7
23% 1* (lowest possible)
the last dozen reviews are virtually all 1* except one 5* but of course from a suspect with only one review to their history!
So current score is 104 reviews
53% 5*
4
8
8
28% 1*
Overall 220th out of 229.
My verdict: “Could do better” (and no, I’ve never reviewed them)
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