arby
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Post by arby on Dec 21, 2018 12:57:33 GMT
Has the item been sold at a loss already? If not, then the result is still exactly as should be expected for a pawn item. The disaster you're talking about may well come later though. I've got a couple of hundred in it so let's see what happens... It's been sold for £10k.A loss of 83%. Haha, not surprised the original valuer didn't want a piece of it! So it only sold for about 10% of the original valuation!
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coop
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Post by coop on Dec 21, 2018 13:48:16 GMT
When is a £90k valuation not a £90k valuation?
When the valuer (nor any of their fellow professionals) won't buy it for more than about £12k!
These valuations are less than worthless now.
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rs
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Post by rs on Dec 21, 2018 14:03:51 GMT
FS update below. Wonder how the other jewellery/gem/ornaments items etc etc are valued.
"We have sold the Malaya Garnet for the sum of £10,591.47. This results in a capital loss and no payment of interest.
In the time since the loan expired we have taken the stone to a number of potential buyers. This includes 4 reputable auction houses. We also contacted a number of dealers in Hatton Garden including the original valuer. The stone was finally sold via a dealer in Hatton Garden.
Naturally we are very disappointed that the stone should have yielded so little. It should be stressed that there was no question as to the authenticity. We did try to contact the original valuer to see whether they would purchase the stone back at a price close to their valuation. However, the valuer was unwilling.
We have explored all opportunities to recover further proceeds which have proved unsuccessful."
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Dec 21, 2018 14:09:23 GMT
FS update below. Wonder how the other jewellery/gem/ornaments items etc etc are valued.
"We have sold the Malaya Garnet for the sum of £10,591.47. This results in a capital loss and no payment of interest.
In the time since the loan expired we have taken the stone to a number of potential buyers. This includes 4 reputable auction houses. We also contacted a number of dealers in Hatton Garden including the original valuer. The stone was finally sold via a dealer in Hatton Garden.
Naturally we are very disappointed that the stone should have yielded so little. It should be stressed that there was no question as to the authenticity. We did try to contact the original valuer to see whether they would purchase the stone back at a price close to their valuation. However, the valuer was unwilling.
We have explored all opportunities to recover further proceeds which have proved unsuccessful."
Errr, so, did the Valuer just lie? If so, I wonder why? To whose benefit? Or, obviously, The Garnet Market tanked 90% over the previous year. Well I never.
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rs
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Post by rs on Dec 21, 2018 14:13:22 GMT
FS update below. Wonder how the other jewellery/gem/ornaments items etc etc are valued.
"We have sold the Malaya Garnet for the sum of £10,591.47. This results in a capital loss and no payment of interest.
In the time since the loan expired we have taken the stone to a number of potential buyers. This includes 4 reputable auction houses. We also contacted a number of dealers in Hatton Garden including the original valuer. The stone was finally sold via a dealer in Hatton Garden.
Naturally we are very disappointed that the stone should have yielded so little. It should be stressed that there was no question as to the authenticity. We did try to contact the original valuer to see whether they would purchase the stone back at a price close to their valuation. However, the valuer was unwilling.
We have explored all opportunities to recover further proceeds which have proved unsuccessful."
Errr, so, did the Valuer just lie? If so, I wonder why? To whose benefit? Or, obviously, The Garnet Market tanked 90% over the previous year. Well I never. We will never know. Seems like the borrower walked of laughing.
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coop
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Post by coop on Dec 21, 2018 14:16:46 GMT
FS update below. Wonder how the other jewellery/gem/ornaments items etc etc are valued.
"We have sold the Malaya Garnet for the sum of £10,591.47. This results in a capital loss and no payment of interest.
In the time since the loan expired we have taken the stone to a number of potential buyers. This includes 4 reputable auction houses. We also contacted a number of dealers in Hatton Garden including the original valuer. The stone was finally sold via a dealer in Hatton Garden.
Naturally we are very disappointed that the stone should have yielded so little. It should be stressed that there was no question as to the authenticity. We did try to contact the original valuer to see whether they would purchase the stone back at a price close to their valuation. However, the valuer was unwilling.
We have explored all opportunities to recover further proceeds which have proved unsuccessful."
Errr, so, did the Valuer just lie? If so, I wonder why? To whose benefit? Or, obviously, The Garnet Market tanked 90% over the previous year. Well I never. One has to assume he lied to give the answer wanted so he made sure he got his fee. If an asset I was familiar with, which I valued at £90k was offered to me for £50-60k I would bite your hand off if I had any faith in my own valuation! He has the industry contacts so it's a really easy £10-20k to make if the valuation wasn't a pure fantasy.
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Post by excalibur on Dec 21, 2018 14:27:40 GMT
Is anyone going to prison for this? Do we need to take legal action against certain parties?
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rs
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Post by rs on Dec 21, 2018 14:28:50 GMT
I wonder how many other loans this borrower has with FS? Also, how many other gems/jewellery has this valuer given valuation to FS which are currently live loans on FS? Hopefully FS can start getting 3 different independent valuations on each of their pawn loans.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 21, 2018 14:29:06 GMT
Errr, so, did the Valuer just lie? If so, I wonder why? To whose benefit? Or, obviously, The Garnet Market tanked 90% over the previous year. Well I never. We will never know. Seems like the borrower walked of laughing. Yes the borrower. But also the valuer - they got their fee. And presumbly FS : they got their fees. I wonder who lost out then ? Ummm......
So question is, assuming the market for this stuff hasn't tanked by some ridiculous amount, are FS going to take action against the valuer ? One assumes they are not: might that have something to do with there being a common party to the increasing number of realisations which are completely and utterly out of kilter with publicised valuations.
For avoidance of doubt, I am not in this loan.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 21, 2018 14:40:25 GMT
I started FS late, so I haven't got a chance dipping this one. Assuming this natural pyrope spessartite is valued @ £600 per carat by member of FCA in Hatton Garden, this one must be at least 150 carat???
A 10k similar item would be around 16 carat minimum I say.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Dec 21, 2018 14:52:21 GMT
I started FS late, so I haven't got a chance dipping this one. Assuming this natural pyrope spessartite is valued @ £600 per carat by member of FCA in Hatton Garden, this one must be at least 150 carat??? A 10k similar item would be around 16 carat minimum I say. You might have started late but if I was you I'd get out as early as possible.............er, like NOW!!
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Dec 21, 2018 15:00:09 GMT
10 seconds on google puts the price of Malaya garnet at $300-400 per carat (£35k-£46k for the stone) when this one was valued at £600-700 so this looks like a combo of overvaluation + poor sell price. I wonder if FS have recourse to the valuer for that valuation.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Dec 21, 2018 15:36:11 GMT
I note the valuer is also a dealer so he clearly knows the market if nothing else
I logged onto a US site and roughly computed the value by comparing stones and carats- got about £10K although granted I haven't a clue in this market. Didn't FS do any elementary checks? Wonder why the dealer never paid £90K for it!
May be wrong but it looks to me as if the dealer got a fair price for it - if the borrower bought this at trade price he must be laughing his rocks off. I was in an initial offering of this one as gambled it would be renewed ; so that was lucky...I would say "skilled "but I would be deluding myself.
This week we have had Whitehaven near 98% loss, mega loss for the model trains - about 75%? and now this one 83% loss - got an overtly positive track record is it - I only hope the number of such disasters decrease in 2019 but I am not holding my breath
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 21, 2018 16:18:53 GMT
FS update below. Wonder how the other jewellery/gem/ornaments items etc etc are valued.
"We have sold the Malaya Garnet for the sum of £10,591.47. This results in a capital loss and no payment of interest.
In the time since the loan expired we have taken the stone to a number of potential buyers. This includes 4 reputable auction houses. We also contacted a number of dealers in Hatton Garden including the original valuer. The stone was finally sold via a dealer in Hatton Garden.
Naturally we are very disappointed that the stone should have yielded so little. It should be stressed that there was no question as to the authenticity. We did try to contact the original valuer to see whether they would purchase the stone back at a price close to their valuation. However, the valuer was unwilling.
We have explored all opportunities to recover further proceeds which have proved unsuccessful."
I suppose we can't ignore the recovery risk on FS. "In the event of non-repayment (default) by the borrower, FundingSecure will auction the asset at the earliest opportunity." I do wonder a couple things here. 1. why only one update on this latest renewal and not being auctioned to the public? 2. What other opportunities were there to be explored by FS but unsuccessful and who is the actual borrower?
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stev
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Post by stev on Dec 21, 2018 16:30:39 GMT
I find it puzzling that the borrower paid the interest to renew the loan four times if they were aware of the gross overvaluation. Usually, renewal gives me a bit of confidence in the valuation but now I am not so sure. Maybe the borrower wanted to pull the same trick over and over again on different items. It would certainly be nice to know whether the borrower has any other loans with FS.
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