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Post by charliebrown on Feb 16, 2018 16:44:38 GMT
poppyland - in reality nothing can be done unless it was possible to engage a lawyer on a no win no fee basis that was able to effectively destroy LY's T's&C's and then demonstrate a lack of Duty of Care. Platforms in general continue to be totally addicted to their own belief that it's all about the property as per the VR and the borrower has very little, if anything to do with it. This argument has been discredited on goodness knows how many occasions but nonetheless that is their stance. Platforms like to portray themselves - often self appointed, as professionals, experts, etc. The simple fact is that many borrowers are far more proficient at extracting funds, sorry our funds, which make many platforms look like basic amateurs. The only thing professional about Le*dy is ability to lose lenders money on a grand scale and strangely enough they keep doing the same thing and get away with it. ... and make a 3.3 million quid profit.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Feb 16, 2018 17:08:50 GMT
i think LENDY themselves are a bit gutted about this especially paul so they need to sit down and work out how to come out of this with their reputation/credability still intact they need to act quickly and chase down all these other DEF/SUS loans as i can see afew more repeats coming soon.come on LENDY get cowes week off your minds and sort out the people who made it possible for you
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Post by d_saver on Feb 16, 2018 17:12:30 GMT
Valuations can sometimes be a bit of a guesstimate based on all the relevant info to hand at the time, but to get it wrong by such a margin is quite frankly pathetic. RICS should strike K*****m***** off I think this is a decent angle really. If people complained to the RICS re an absurdly wrong valuation and can get the valuer struck off, or at least disciplined (per their competence rules) , publicly, then surely the rest might be more cautious and realistic with their figures in future. I don't know enough about the RICS to know if the organisation is worth a damn or not. Lendy were given numbers by supposed professionals and those professionals clearly got it very wrong. Perhaps they need reminding that the idea is to value the asset realistically, not match the required loan value or price paid to it.. This might be of interest to some. What the RICS themselves consider a reasonable margin of wiggle for valuations and some relevant legal cases www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/margins-of-error/I think we obviously fell somewhat outside that this time. Let's hope that Lendy's other avenues of recovery, which may include suing the valuer under his own professional indemnity insurance lead to results.
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keith
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Post by keith on Feb 16, 2018 17:22:26 GMT
I rather agree.
There is an element of moral hazard in this valuation stuff. The surveyor has insurance and thus can make a certain level of mistake with impunity. However, if a tenacious platform makes a big misvaluation claim or two stick then insurance premia will rise for surveyors and they will be forced to start cleaning this whole valuation thing up.
So, I hope Lendy decide that the best way to preserve their reputation is to go like attack dogs and sue the b***s of KM.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Feb 16, 2018 17:36:37 GMT
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 16, 2018 17:44:38 GMT
Valuations can sometimes be a bit of a guesstimate based on all the relevant info to hand at the time, but to get it wrong by such a margin is quite frankly pathetic. RICS should strike K*****m***** off It is totally unacceptable to have what we see in PBL155: a 'professional' valuation of 4.9 million and a sale of 1.5 million for the exact same property and in a limited time window. The first and most serious step I demand on Lendy is that THEY SUE the rics valuer that signed off that valuation. If they don't do it, it will simply confirm me that the final number is/was choosen by Lendy to satisfy the borrower's requests (and defraud the lenders)... I expect to see strong actions. I would be pleasantly surprised to see LY take action against a valuer - or any other platform for that matter. The problem for the platforms is that this action would travel like wildfire around the valuer community. So how then could the platforms always magically get to their 70% LTV being presented? The valuers would wise up and become realistic, the 'dodgy' borrowers would go elsewhere and some platforms may have to close up shop. Now I wonder if any platform would go that far.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 16, 2018 17:53:21 GMT
i think LENDY themselves are a bit gutted about this especially paul so they need to sit down and work out how to come out of this with their reputation/credability still intact <snip> Another platform were also gutted about the 70% loss on a turbine loan. They were also going to chase up for further recoveries. No worries then. Now it's all slipped off the front page and nothing heard since. Lenders may have quit but no problem as there's always other lenders just around the corner to take their place.
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keith
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Post by keith on Feb 16, 2018 17:53:53 GMT
Just thinking about this a little more. I am no lawyer but in the case of PBL 155 there is a sequence that LY has to go through and probably why they are being a bit circumspect.
Before they can sue KM, they have to know the extent of their losses. To know that, they have to have exhausted all other avenues of recompense from the borrower as the action on the default needs to come first - if the loan had not defaulted then who would care what the valuation was. If/once a shortfall is established from the borrower then they can sue KM for the shortfall up to the difference between sale and valuation.
So, at present, I assume LY are pursuing the borrower while quietly putting together a case against KM in the background and I doubt if we will hear much from them at present.
Should it all come to court, though, I would hope LY make as big a publicity splash as possible.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Feb 16, 2018 18:00:32 GMT
Just thinking about this a little more. I am no lawyer but in the case of PBL 155 there is a sequence that LY has to go through and probably why they are being a bit circumspect. Before they can sue KM, they have to know the extent of their losses. To know that, they have to have exhausted all other avenues of recompense from the borrower as the action on the default needs to come first - if the loan had not defaulted then who would care what the valuation was. If/once a shortfall is established from the borrower then they can sue KM for the shortfall up to the difference between sale and valuation. So, at present, I assume LY are pursuing the borrower while quietly putting together a case against KM in the background and I doubt if we will hear much from them at present. Should it all come to court, though, I would hope LY make as big a publicity splash as possible. KM valued the asset and not the borrower's net worth. There is nothing stopping Lendy from initiating court proceedings. The borrower's other assets are an entirely different matter.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Feb 16, 2018 18:25:52 GMT
Anyone else aggrieved can also target the valuer and the company by negative reviews specifically linked to this valuation. I have made a start. where do we go to leave a review of the valuer and company
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 16, 2018 18:27:41 GMT
i think LENDY themselves are a bit gutted <snip> It's just words - 'gutted' that is. LY could sort this out now by making good from those £3.3m profits and then chase up the borrower/valuers/etc to replenish their wallets profits. It's not going to happen so it's just words. Sooner or later this thread will drop off the front page and any updates will contain the words - 'ongoing' or 'no update'.
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upland
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Post by upland on Feb 16, 2018 18:58:06 GMT
Now it's all slipped off the front page and nothing heard since. Lenders may have quit but no problem as there's always other lenders just around the corner to take their place. True but I have been wondering how long will it take before investors notice that returns are actually not that great. I am guilty of being taken in by the stream of successes with some of these p2p platforms and it was not until I did some decent measurements that I realised that some p2p platforms had much worse returns than I thought in the way that I used them. That "how long" may well be a year or so. I think that it would be pretty grim for some of the big names if they had to fund these projects on finding a stream of new mugs. To lose their current core investors would not be good for them and its the thought that I am their problem keeps me going. (or am I being naive?)
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 16, 2018 19:12:13 GMT
Now it's all slipped off the front page and nothing heard since. Lenders may have quit but no problem as there's always other lenders just around the corner to take their place. True but I have been wondering how long will it take before investors notice that returns are actually not that great. I am guilty of being taken in by the stream of successes with some of these p2p platforms and it was not until I did some decent measurements that I realised that some p2p platforms had much worse returns than I thought in the way that I used them. That "how long" may well be a year or so. I think that it would be pretty grim for some of the big names if they had to fund these projects on finding a stream of new mugs. To lose their current core investors would not be good for them and its the thought that I am their problem keeps me going. (or am i being naive?) Not being naive at all IMO. My IRR with that other platform is currently running at a shade over 9%. There's a whopper due soon with the W**** H**** loan so I expect that will drop closer to 7%. After all the time spent doing DD - probably several hours which often leads to a non-investment decision then in my case it's not worth it with that particular platform. Now obviously there are some good loans although I'm not interested in the FFF scenario for a £25 allocation and cannot be bothered with all the DD required especially as several material facts are uncovered and obviously known by the platform but not disclosed. Hmmmm...........
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Feb 16, 2018 19:19:19 GMT
Now it's all slipped off the front page and nothing heard since. Lenders may have quit but no problem as there's always other lenders just around the corner to take their place. True but I have been wondering how long will it take before investors notice that returns are actually not that great. I am guilty of being taken in by the stream of successes with some of these p2p platforms and it was not until I did some decent measurements that I realised that some p2p platforms had much worse returns than I thought in the way that I used them. That "how long" may well be a year or so. I think that it would be pretty grim for some of the big names if they had to fund these projects on finding a stream of new mugs. To lose their current core investors would not be good for them and its the thought that I am their problem keeps me going. (or am i being naive?) i do not think that 2426 people who put their hard earned savings into this will let this slip away and i think that LENDY will now do their utmost to resolve i also agree with everthing that was said above.returns are not that great when you add it all up all the DEF/IA/SUSloans earning sod all and tied up for god knows how long withevery chance of going pear shaped.i dont know if i am allowed to mention on here but have been with kuflink for quite a while now and seems a safe 7.2% without all the  we are getting thrown at us to fund on lendy.they do not care if they lose core investors as the revoling door is still spinning for them at the moment
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keith
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Post by keith on Feb 16, 2018 21:40:46 GMT
Agree on what you say about Kuflink (excellent, at least to date). Agree generally.
However, 2426 people?
A number of whom will
(a) not notice
(b) notice but not care too much
(c) notice but its too hard to do anything innit
(d) none of the above but are not sure what to do
It’s the nature of things that, although the default and appalling sale realisation is a catalyst, I am not sure where the oxygen comes from. If one HNW individual was burnt badly enough here AND this made a difference to his/her lifestyle then maybe we might get someone pumping the bellows. However, spread the pain in varying amounts over 2426 busy (working or otherwise occupied people) and you don’t have much to start a revolution. Such is the logic of collective action.
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we are getting thrown at us to fund on lendy.they do not care if they lose core investors as the revoling door is still spinning for them at the moment