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Post by dualinvestor on Feb 23, 2018 13:02:21 GMT
You seem to have missed the point, relying on valuations does give about as much assurance as tossing a coin, not because they are inaccurate although they often are, but because when security is enforced it rarely realises anything other than a small proportion of its true worth. In fact in a DFL situation I would regard any realisation at all as a bomus. This is why I am amazed at the amount of effort by quite intelligent people on this board regarding the value of security and when push comes to shove it does not realise what they expect it to, and that is without the interference/manipulation of platforms, borrowers or anyone else
There is a big difference between false valuations and incorrect valuations. We know it is not an exact science.
You are entitled to that opinion but security is only worth what someone will pay for it. As I have said many times today that is only going to be, for your purposes, when it is in a distressed state and likely to be a small proportion of the stated LTV in the loan particulars.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Feb 23, 2018 13:56:01 GMT
Personally, I think The Lawn Tennis Association should take over from RICS, because there are clearly rackets involved.  Certainly, The LTA couldn't do any worse, and would arguably employ more fairness to the proceedings?  IMHO, as usual, of course. |
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Feb 23, 2018 14:21:47 GMT
Personally, I think The Lawn Tennis Association should take over from RICS, because there are clearly rackets involved. Certainly, The LTA couldn't do any worse, and would arguably employ more fairness to the proceedings? IMHO, as usual, of course. I think they also employ turf accountants, so no gamble there then 
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warn
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Post by warn on Feb 23, 2018 16:12:21 GMT
Personally, I think The Lawn Tennis Association should take over from RICS, because there are clearly rackets involved. Certainly, The LTA couldn't do any worse, and would arguably employ more fairness to the proceedings? IMHO, as usual, of course. I think they also employ turf accountants, so no gamble there then Ace suggestion, but net result would be the same.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Feb 23, 2018 19:05:48 GMT
I don't know, but I haven't noted that Lendy only use a few valuers. If that's right, ie they use a fair selection of different valuers around the country it seems not believeable that they really do frequently persuade valuers to give the figure they want. Far more likely that they say to the borrower that the most they will offer is value x 0.7.
I'm sure people all the time are looking for a valuation that suits them, why would a valuer risk their livelihood for the odd job in such a public arena?
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Feb 24, 2018 0:00:08 GMT
Oh Dear, shimself, the Valuers are risking nothing, it's a Club, a CONservative, and *everyone knows it. Investors on this site are not stupid. (Well, I might be, but most are extremely astute.) The varying degrees of denial on here don't astound me, they floor me. (No funny emoji here, it has to stop now, this is serious manure.)  *PS/EDIT: The informed readers on this site know, not "everyone". So I stand corrected. |
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 24, 2018 3:38:52 GMT
It's not just the valuers that are at fault - there's also a fair amount of coercion that exists between the borrower and the platform and nope, I do not have proof of that but it's convenient that everything finishes up at 70%. Yes, a fair number of loans end up at 70% LTV, but I don't attribute that to collusion. ISTM it's simply the result of a VR coming in -- hopefully unbiased -- and the platform saying they're willing to lend 70% of that. If the borrower accepts the offer -- hey, presto! -- 70% LTV. The valuation is based on a number of input assumptions. These input assumptions do not include a distressed recovery scenario. Essentially the valuation, as it stands, is only accurate in the scenario where it is not needed: non-default. In the scenario where it is needed, default and recovery, it is unlikely to be accurate as the assumptions are invalid. This does not mean the valuation is worthless since the value in the non-default scenario may be a helpful in determining the value in the distressed scenario (once an appropriate haircut has been applied). The issue here is one of investor perception. They need to understand that the LTV is just a starting point in a process where they need to to take a subjective view on the likely recovery value in a default scenario. It is not the end point. I'm not sure this always is the case. On many occasions, I've seen VRs that quote a value based on a 180-day marketing period, but also quote a 90-day value. That may not equate exactly to a forced-sale value but it should go some way in that direction. Where a 90D value is shown, I always compare it to the 180D value because I believe, perhaps naively, that it says a lot about the marketability of the property. For an ordinary house in an ordinary street, the discount needed in order to achieve a quick sale might be only 10%, and that tells me the valuer is pretty confident of the value achievable. For a unusual/unique property such as PBL155, I'd expect the valuer to start with a 360D value and then start applying discounts. It wouldn't surprise me if the 90D value in that situation might be 50% or less of the 360D value. Like ozboy, I think all P2P platforms should instruct their valuers to provide such data.
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Post by cashmax on Feb 26, 2018 10:21:48 GMT
A slightly odd first post, but I wanted to get some opinions on this. I don’t want to give away too much information at this stage, but hopefully this will be enough to give everyone an idea of what I’m talking about.
I have around £20K with SS for a couple of years and was advised by someone (who I know well and has a unique insight into this market - Lendy in particular) to stop the loans rolling back in and transfer the cash out when they are repaid.
Although I did this, I have ended up with about £3.5K of exposure across 10 odd loans, most of the usual suspects are included in this. I have received an offer to buy my interest in several of these loans (which equates to about £2.5K) the mechanics of which I won’t share now because it is a little convoluted and I have been asked not to.
In essence I have been offered the full amount owing on these loans plus all the interest to date and just the capital back on the other £1K, with no interest.
Reading between the lines, the loans this 3rd party is interested in appear to be the ones where the due diligence and valuations have proved to be extremely inadequate and I am guessing there is a claim for negligence?
I know the people involved and trust them implicitly, so I can’t really see any downside here apart from a potentially small amount of interest lost.
Can anyone see a downside?
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Jeepers
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Post by Jeepers on Feb 26, 2018 10:28:25 GMT
If you could stop talking in riddles, we might be able to comment ?
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Post by cashmax on Feb 26, 2018 10:33:03 GMT
In essence, a 3rd party has offered to buy all my outstanding loans I have with Lendy.
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Jeepers
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Post by Jeepers on Feb 26, 2018 10:35:22 GMT
So they are buying your account/ putting your account in their name ? Lendy Support- what's your stance on insider trading and inside knowledge? |
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Feb 26, 2018 10:40:56 GMT
In essence, a 3rd party has offered to buy all my outstanding loans I have with Lendy. Do they happen to have previously owned a castle per chance?
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Post by dualinvestor on Feb 26, 2018 10:51:23 GMT
Has it occurred to you how anyone otherthan Lendy know which loans you hold? Unless you have told them yourself.
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Post by cashmax on Feb 26, 2018 10:56:49 GMT
Has it occurred to you how anyone otherthan Lendy know which loans you hold? Unless you have told them yourself. They know because I told them. Thats why this started in the first place.
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Post by dualinvestor on Feb 26, 2018 11:02:10 GMT
Has it occurred to you how anyone otherthan Lendy know which loans you hold? Unless you have told them yourself. They know because I told them. Thats why this started in the first place. Told who? This mysterious insider? If so ask him? Or was it some random stranger? How did they get your contact details?
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IMHO, as usual, of course. 
