keith
Member of DD Central
Posts: 118 
Likes: 72
|
Post by keith on Feb 16, 2018 21:44:52 GMT
Just thinking, by the way - here in KSA
They shut a lot of HNW individuals up in the Ritz-Carlton hotel until they made a contribution.
Maybe we can rent a B&B in Portsmouth and incarcerate individuals to a similar end?
|
|
|
|
Post by charliebrown on Feb 17, 2018 3:20:44 GMT
Just thinking about this a little more. I am no lawyer but in the case of PBL 155 there is a sequence that LY has to go through and probably why they are being a bit circumspect. Before they can sue KM, they have to know the extent of their losses. To know that, they have to have exhausted all other avenues of recompense from the borrower as the action on the default needs to come first - if the loan had not defaulted then who would care what the valuation was. If/once a shortfall is established from the borrower then they can sue KM for the shortfall up to the difference between sale and valuation. So, at present, I assume LY are pursuing the borrower while quietly putting together a case against KM in the background and I doubt if we will hear much from them at present. Should it all come to court, though, I would hope LY make as big a publicity splash as possible. If Lendy had nothing to do with the evaluation (i.e. did not give 'goals' to the evaluator...), then the valuation is the result of the work of a professional. If this work is totally wrong, as demonstrated by the sale at 25% of the valuation price (regardless of the recovery avenues Lendy might pursue in parallel), this evaluation agency should be sued immediately. Besides the potential economic loss for the lenders, there is a HUGE REPUTATIONAL LOSS for Lendy themselves (which is my view might be even bigger than the loan loss). This means people not investing anymore, people leaving immediately, people not joining, potential press negative articles, etc. (think also to all the negative advertising when the word out is that Lendy loans are a pile of rubbish with valuations inflated 4-5 times). And this just because Lendy would not be credible in any other proposition if they don't act here against this valuation agency. LY reputation was already taking a beating long before the castle, but it’s pretty much at an all time low right now. I just had a look at the LY reviews over on TrustPilot, most are 1 red star and an outpouring of, quite accurate and constructive, frustration. The LY replies are patronizing boilerplate replies that show not a shred of empathy; past performance is not indicative of future performance etc. A good reputation is only valuable if you ever thought it was something worth protecting. The worrying thing is I don’t think the castle is an isolated problem, the problem is systemic and I believe there’s quite a few more castles on the horizon.
|
|
upland
Member of DD Central
Posts: 479
Likes: 175
|
Post by upland on Feb 17, 2018 12:09:32 GMT
A number of whom will (a) not notice (b) notice but not care too much (c) notice but its too hard to do anything innit (d) none of the above but are not sure what to do Indeed , looking over at the 19000 odd investors each with their different risk appetites and investment ability , their busy life styles and investment successes and failures.... I dont think that it would an overnight change causing investors to flee with a vengeance as I suspect many are still making money here. I have some faith in Lendy that they will improve things , its in their interests to do so and after all they probably knew little about it all when they started. Its taken years to get the 19000 on board and if they start to move away I dont see how the natural flow of newbies inwards could compensate.
|
|
withnell
Member of DD Central
Posts: 550
Likes: 491
|
Post by withnell on Feb 19, 2018 11:49:15 GMT
There is also the issue that you are not able to flee - even the longer-dated loans have 100k queues, so it's near on impossible to liquidate in the short term
|
|
mary
Member of DD Central
Posts: 698 
Likes: 711
|
Post by mary on Feb 19, 2018 12:03:21 GMT
There is also the issue that you are not able to flee - even the longer-dated loans have 100k queues, so it's near on impossible to liquidate in the short term Not all platforms have a SM or sell out function, and where they do they all rely on someone else willing to take over the risk, which I presume you knew when you made your investments. In fact the current SM is relatively low, after Brexit it hit £4m or ~2.5% of the loan book, and after the last general election it hit £8m Or approx 5%. Each time it came down, although it took many months. Over on MT the SM has now gone over 11% of the loan book. In all cases past performance is not a reliable indicator.
|
|
|
|
Post by dualinvestor on Feb 19, 2018 12:52:05 GMT
.................. My husband suggested this morning that a class action against Lendy would be a good thing, if someone were able to organise it. I don't 0know how realistic this would be, or whether the stress/benefit ratio would work out well. .................. A class action may be possible, but apart from the practicalities of organising that what would be gained? Firstly you would have to prove, on the balance of probabilities, Lendy have been negligent and reckless and owed you a duty of care. If you think you have evidence of this you need to prove it against them in court, but you will probably be fighting their Professional Idemninity (PI) insurers, who tend to have very deep pockets when fighting such claims. Suppose you win, Lendy has net assets of c£3million and PI cover of what? £10/20/50million, the default loan book is larger than the biggest of those figures already. As Lendy will cease trading losses are likely to considerably increase because other loan, especially DFLs where it will not be possible to complete the project and consequently they will become bad debts. So if you win and get damages who will pay them? Unfortunately the trite comment is, how do I egt out of Lendy with no losses? Don’t invest with them in the first place.
|
|
Jeepers
Member of DD Central
Posts: 818
Likes: 721
|
Post by Jeepers on Feb 19, 2018 13:04:52 GMT
dualinvestor you're expecting all the default loans to recover nothing ?
|
|
|
|
Post by dualinvestor on Feb 19, 2018 13:24:57 GMT
dualinvestor you're expecting all the default loans to recover nothing ? If Lendy ceases trading I expect a nil or neglible recovery on all loans. If Lendy carries on trading deafualt DFLs will probably have large deficits, othe loans where freclosure is necessary (eg forced sale through a receiver etc) security will not realise more than 70% LTV as demonstrated in PBL020, PBL081, PBL 094 and PBL 155. (if PLB 094 is the IOW property)
|
|
shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 1,171
|
Post by shimself on Feb 19, 2018 13:41:18 GMT
dualinvestor you're expecting all the default loans to recover nothing ? If Lendy ceases trading I expect a nil or neglible recovery on all loans. If Lendy carries on trading deafualt DFLs will probably have large deficits, othe loans where freclosure is necessary (eg forced sale through a receiver etc) security will not realise more than 70% LTV as demonstrated in PBL020, PBL081, PBL 094 and PBL 155. (if PLB 094 is the IOW property) I can't work out which you think is preferable. In general I think that bad platforms need to go bust, otherwise there's just more and more of the same. I know that all platforms have a backup administrator in place, I would like to know more about what the deals are like, how incentified they are to do a good collection job. Or maybe sell the loan book with a haircut to another platform?
|
|
|
|
Post by dualinvestor on Feb 19, 2018 13:52:45 GMT
I know that all platforms have a backup administrator in place, I would like to know more about what the deals are like, how incentified they are to do a good collection job. Or maybe sell the loan book with a haircut to another platform? I was an Insolvency Practitioner for 30 years, rates of bad debt rose enormously when a company wnt bust. If a platform fails you will have two levels of insolvenncy , first the debt, in this case we have less than prime borrowers and often inflated valuations at the outset, and secondly an Administrator (or someone acting in a similar capacity) trying to recover the debt, a sort of "double dip" . Additiionally in Lendy's case most new loans are DFLs (even those classed as PBLs) where refinancing will be dificult and further tranches wl not be available if Lendy no longer exists. I agree with your comment "in general bad platforms need to go bust" but not onle will this result in a bad outcome for current lenders but may have a knock on effect for the whole P2P industry.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 1,478
|
Post by bugs4me on Feb 19, 2018 14:03:56 GMT
<snip> In general I think that bad platforms need to go bust, otherwise there's just more and more of the same. I know that all platforms have a backup administrator in place, I would like to know more about what the deals are like, how incentified they are to do a good collection job. Or maybe sell the loan book with a haircut to another platform? Reluctantly I find myself in agreement. The continual can kicking of defaulted overdue loans needs to stop. The losses are already there but platforms will continue to feed false hopeful updates to lenders to massage their defaults. It's often an Alice in Wonderland mentality which needs bringing into reality. Many platforms are supposedly loosing money which I simply do not believe irrespective as to the accounts posted. There are many personal items that can be offset as a business expense against profit if you have a friendly accountant. So I'm all in favour of seeing a more mature P2P industry. We all know it's not going to be driven by the about as useful as a chocolate teapot FCA - loosing a platform here and there may wake up lenders and become more selective in their investments. Administrators responsibilities hereEdit - crossed with dualinvestor
|
|
shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 1,171
|
Post by shimself on Feb 19, 2018 14:25:22 GMT
I know that all platforms have a backup administrator in place, I would like to know more about what the deals are like, how incentified they are to do a good collection job. Or maybe sell the loan book with a haircut to another platform? I was an Insolvency Practitioner for 30 years, rates of bad debt rose enormously when a company wnt bust. If a platform fails you will have two levels of insolvenncy , first the debt, in this case we have less than prime borrowers and often inflated valuations at the outset, and secondly an Administrator (or someone acting in a similar capacity) trying to recover the debt, a sort of "double dip" . Additiionally in Lendy's case most new loans are DFLs (even those classed as PBLs) where refinancing will be dificult and further tranches wl not be available if Lendy no longer exists. I agree with your comment "in general bad platforms need to go bust" but not onle will this result in a bad outcome for current lenders but may have a knock on effect for the whole P2P industry. I was thinking particularly of the backup operator that every platform has to have in place to be licensed by the FCA. These agreements would presumably have to include a cost structure, and some means of determining when to give up or sell off a problem loan. Some day a bad platform will go bust and whatever knock on effect will happen. It's not clear to me that we lenders would be better off if this was delayed, and my particular reason for saying that is what appears to be a severe decline in loan quality more or less across the board.
|
|
|
|
Post by red_panda on Feb 19, 2018 14:25:34 GMT
I'm just a lurker here on these boards, but an investor through Lendy for over a year and a half. I'm disappointed like all of you, but I can't but think there is something institutionally wrong with the UK property market. Being an EU investor, I'm invested in property loans in different EU countries as well, and none are performing as awfully as these on Lendy. In fact, late loans in other countries for me amount to about 5% with 0 defaults in 2 years, while late loans on Lendy amount for me to over 50% (expecting worse), with several suspended and potentially default. I'm pulling out of the UK market all together, it's been nothing but disappointment for me and Brexit hasn't helped either.
|
|
shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 1,171
|
Post by shimself on Feb 19, 2018 14:29:31 GMT
I'm just a lurker here on these boards, but an investor through Lendy for over a year and a half. I'm disappointed like all of you, but I can't but think there is something institutionally wrong with the UK property market. Being an EU investor, I'm invested in property loans in different EU countries as well, and none are performing as awfully as these on Lendy. In fact, late loans in other countries for me amount to about 5% with 0 defaults in 2 years, while late loans on Lendy amount for me to over 50% (expecting worse), with several suspended and potentially default. I'm pulling out of the UK market all together, it's been nothing but disappointment for me and Brexit hasn't helped either. I've got to ask you which platforms. Mods, I know, maybe a PM, I couldn't decide
|
|
|
|
Post by red_panda on Feb 19, 2018 14:33:02 GMT
I'm just a lurker here on these boards, but an investor through Lendy for over a year and a half. I'm disappointed like all of you, but I can't but think there is something institutionally wrong with the UK property market. Being an EU investor, I'm invested in property loans in different EU countries as well, and none are performing as awfully as these on Lendy. In fact, late loans in other countries for me amount to about 5% with 0 defaults in 2 years, while late loans on Lendy amount for me to over 50% (expecting worse), with several suspended and potentially default. I'm pulling out of the UK market all together, it's been nothing but disappointment for me and Brexit hasn't helped either. I've got to ask you which platforms. Mods, I know, maybe a PM, I couldn't decide I PMed to you just in case.
|
|
