mickj
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Post by mickj on Nov 6, 2019 17:24:03 GMT
I topped up my account recently with a debit card on weekend. Although I understand Lending works require 2 working days for clearing debit card payment, now I’ve learned funds doesn’t get cleared within 48 hours from the start of next working day, extra hours may be required until next working day morning. I hope this info may be useful for others investors who top up their account with debit cards. I used to use debit card, instant on some P2P's, but have found bank transfer quicker even before it became the 'improved version'.
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n
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Yet another Nick
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Post by n on Nov 16, 2019 11:06:18 GMT
I am well impressed. Just transferred 10K over from AC ISA, expecting there to be cash drag once it hit LW. It arrived at LW late on 13th and by the end of 15th all bar £10 was lent out! So the cash drag turned out to only be AC taking the full 30 days to release my money from their cash account.
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Post by gravitykillz on Dec 3, 2019 19:20:50 GMT
What is matching time now ? Is there any ?
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mickj
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Post by mickj on Dec 4, 2019 11:23:56 GMT
What is matching time now ? Is there any ? Quite swift, the lower end of the 1-7 days, I have had some "Loan chunk acquired via Quick Withdraw" at 5% that I will live with. New money credited on the 2nd, chunk created on the 3rd at 6.5% happy with that.
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Post by davidspindle on Dec 8, 2019 1:49:03 GMT
I was not sure where to post this, as it relates to a number of threads.
I wanted to get a rough idea of the cash outflows from LW since the recent changes. I manage LW accounts for several family members and looked at the five largest with about 175k total invested. The ‘View Loans’ tab now shows only a single page with the 25 most recently acquired loans. On most of these accounts about half of the total of 125 loans showing were acquired in November and half in December.
I counted the numbers of new loans and second-hand loans November: 34 new, 28 second-hand December: 2 new, 61 second-hand
Matching times for re-investment are now very short and selling times are longer. Together, all that that is reasonable evidence of a large exodus of lender cash.
What is harder to deduce is whether loan origination will improve with lower rates
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Dec 8, 2019 7:49:54 GMT
I was not sure where to post this, as it relates to a number of threads.
I wanted to get a rough idea of the cash outflows from LW since the recent changes. I manage LW accounts for several family members and looked at the five largest with about 175k total invested. The ‘View Loans’ tab now shows only a single page with the 25 most recently acquired loans. On most of these accounts about half of the total of 125 loans showing were acquired in November and half in December.
I counted the numbers of new loans and second-hand loans November: 34 new, 28 second-hand December: 2 new, 61 second-hand
Matching times for re-investment are now very short and selling times are longer. Together, all that that is reasonable evidence of a large exodus of lender cash.
What is harder to deduce is whether loan origination will improve with lower rates You will need to wait several months to see how things settle down IMHO. The fee free sellout finishes at the end of December, but it may take a bit longer for all these to be actioned When Ratesetter offered the fee free sellout in the past it took several months for things to settle down so i would be wary of trying to deduce anything yet. I doubt we will really know until the end of 2020 what the new normal is. There is usually a fairly quiet loan period over end Dec, start Jan so it will be difficult to deduce much. You could download the whole loan book and see how much of a reduction in new loans there has been vs previous months, but be aware lending volume was variable anyway so you would need to do this over several months.
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Ukmikk
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Post by Ukmikk on Dec 8, 2019 10:57:42 GMT
What is harder to deduce is whether loan origination will improve with lower rates
I think the lower rates are only for lenders not for borrowers.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Dec 8, 2019 11:13:49 GMT
What is harder to deduce is whether loan origination will improve with lower rates
I think the lower rates are only for lenders not for borrowers. Indeed. It's difficult to overstate just how different the borrowers are on Lending Works compared to their own past and other platforms, It seems to me that LW have decided the best way to compete on loan origination is to target much higher risk borrowers. Hence in 2019 we see an average APR of 14.2% (in 2014 their average APR was just 7.7%), Obviously, the extra 'fat' in the gross rate gives a little more room for defaults, but other platforms have typically found that the increase in default rates is higher/worse than a linear trend might suggest. Time will tell how LW will fare.
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macq
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Post by macq on Dec 8, 2019 11:41:35 GMT
I think the lower rates are only for lenders not for borrowers. Indeed. It's difficult to overstate just how different the borrowers are on Lending Works compared to their own past and other platforms, It seems to me that LW have decided the best way to compete on loan origination is to target much higher risk borrowers. Hence in 2019 we see an average APR of 14.2% (in 2014 their average APR was just 7.7%), Obviously, the extra 'fat' in the gross rate gives a little more room for defaults, but other platforms have typically found that the increase in default rates is higher/worse than a linear trend might suggest. Time will tell how LW will fare. Hopefully that's not the case as taking on higher risk borrowers to stabilize the platform does not sound like a winner.If it was the plan then in that case you would hope that they would have done a Landbay and closed to new retail money and let the institutional money handle that part of the market as they would be more willing to take the risk (i assume)
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Dec 8, 2019 11:48:08 GMT
Indeed. It's difficult to overstate just how different the borrowers are on Lending Works compared to their own past and other platforms, It seems to me that LW have decided the best way to compete on loan origination is to target much higher risk borrowers. Hence in 2019 we see an average APR of 14.2% (in 2014 their average APR was just 7.7%), Obviously, the extra 'fat' in the gross rate gives a little more room for defaults, but other platforms have typically found that the increase in default rates is higher/worse than a linear trend might suggest. Time will tell how LW will fare. Hopefully that's not the case as taking on higher risk borrowers to stabilize the platform does not sound like a winner.If it was the plan then in that case you would hope that they would have done a Landbay and closed to new retail money and let the institutional money handle that part of the market as they would be more willing to take the risk (i assume) Well, it is the case, is all I can say. Check out the top right graph here: www.lendingworks.co.uk/about-us/statisticsand the associated quote: "Average APR by year of origination, weighted by loan principal amount. As we’ve grown, we’ve prudently expanded our risk appetite and average APR to meet demand from a wider pool of borrowers. We do not expect the average APR to increase materially in the future." edit: LW's Matthew has responded to this point before (check out his recent posts as I can't be arsed this fine Sunday morning ). I still however personally don't fancy it, although at least with the new platform structure the potential short-term consequence will just be poor lender returns rather than possible platform failure. edit2: Others may take the view that pooled higher risk borrowers might deliver a totally acceptable adjusted return.
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macq
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Post by macq on Dec 8, 2019 12:05:00 GMT
Hopefully that's not the case as taking on higher risk borrowers to stabilize the platform does not sound like a winner.If it was the plan then in that case you would hope that they would have done a Landbay and closed to new retail money and let the institutional money handle that part of the market as they would be more willing to take the risk (i assume) Well, it is the case, is all I can say. Check out the top right graph here: www.lendingworks.co.uk/about-us/statisticsand the associated quote: "Average APR by year of origination, weighted by loan principal amount. As we’ve grown, we’ve prudently expanded our risk appetite and average APR to meet demand from a wider pool of borrowers. We do not expect the average APR to increase materially in the future." edit: LW's Matthew has responded to this point before (check out his recent posts as I can't be arsed this fine Sunday morning ). I still however don't fancy it, although at least with the new platform structure the potential short-term consequence will just be poor lender returns rather than immediate platform failure. Guess it depends how much faith you have in the words "prudently expanded" rather then the words high risk borrowers (not to much in my case)
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Dec 9, 2019 7:01:51 GMT
Well, it is the case, is all I can say. Check out the top right graph here: www.lendingworks.co.uk/about-us/statisticsand the associated quote: "Average APR by year of origination, weighted by loan principal amount. As we’ve grown, we’ve prudently expanded our risk appetite and average APR to meet demand from a wider pool of borrowers. We do not expect the average APR to increase materially in the future." edit: LW's Matthew has responded to this point before (check out his recent posts as I can't be arsed this fine Sunday morning ). I still however don't fancy it, although at least with the new platform structure the potential short-term consequence will just be poor lender returns rather than immediate platform failure. Guess it depends how much faith you have in the words "prudently expanded" rather then the words high risk borrowers (not to much in my case) The average Apr in the past always seemed very low to me given the rates they were offering lenders. In fact I couldn't see how they could possibly do it long term. One of the reasons they did it was perhaps to help them build their business quicker. At the old average rate they were trying to identify some of the best prime borrowers who are rate sensitive. This is not easy, as it is difficult weeding out the not so good borrowers. It is especially difficult for a new organisation like LW. I can see how they struggled to offer the rates to lenders, cover overheads, make a profit and pay into the PF. I don't think they can compete at the average 7.7 apr market and pay lenders such a high rate. For comparison, have a look at the RS website for the range of rates they charge. You can also see the APR for each loan in the updated website. With personal debt increasing www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50671834 and an uncertain economic outlook I can see why it was prudent for LW to review who they were lending to and at what rates.
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Ukmikk
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Post by Ukmikk on Dec 9, 2019 9:51:40 GMT
I can see why it was prudent for LW to review who they were lending to and at what rates. Except they haven't. They have reviewed and amended the rate paid to lenders.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Dec 9, 2019 10:22:03 GMT
I can see why it was prudent for LW to review who they were lending to and at what rates. Except they haven't. They have reviewed and amended the rate paid to lenders. It's both. They've lowered our rates and increased their (average) borrower rate.Which, as above, does not necessarily equate to more profit for LW.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Dec 9, 2019 11:20:10 GMT
I can see why it was prudent for LW to review who they were lending to and at what rates. Except they haven't. They have reviewed and amended the rate paid to lenders. They have dropped lender rates as well as adjusted who they lend to and at what rates. Prime personal borrowers are typically rate sensitive particularly when sourcing loans from the comparison websites. However with some channels all lenders can pick up prime borrowers who for whatever reason end up paying a little higher interest without paying any attention.... However on the whole the higher the borrower rate the higher the risk. This is not a problem at all as long as enough money is put into the PF for these new borrowers. Only time will tell.
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