bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 1,478
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Post by bugs4me on Apr 22, 2018 22:00:16 GMT
I'm all in favour of not naming and shaming. I believe most posters are fully aware of the 'rules' and whilst the admins/mods may have been over sensitive in some cases that's purely a personal opinion. It's not my neck that's on the chopping block and the voluntary work done by the admin/mods is fully appreciated.
There were more than a couple of threads that had become reminiscent of Facebook. We all have our own opinions and thoughts and they should be respected whether we agree or disagree with them. A (probably) small minority of members trying to take other individuals to task because they do not agree does not sit well in my book and I suspect it possibly deters many other members from making a contribution.
So as sarahcount so correctly stated - '....Let's try to make this one work. Stop arguing endlessly. Give the volunteer moderators a break. Let's work together to hold the platforms to account, keep a close eye on shady borrowers -and see if we can all make some money....'
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GeorgeT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,322 
Likes: 1,576
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Post by GeorgeT on Apr 22, 2018 22:59:18 GMT
I'm all in favour of not naming and shaming. I believe most posters are fully aware of the 'rules' and whilst the admins/mods may have been over sensitive in some cases that's purely a personal opinion. It's not my neck that's on the chopping block and the voluntary work done by the admin/mods is fully appreciated.
There were more than a couple of threads that had become reminiscent of Facebook. We all have our own opinions and thoughts and they should be respected whether we agree or disagree with them. A (probably) small minority of members trying to take other individuals to task because they do not agree does not sit well in my book and I suspect it possibly deters many other members from making a contribution.
So as sarahcount so correctly stated - '....Let's try to make this one work. Stop arguing endlessly. Give the volunteer moderators a break. Let's work together to hold the platforms to account, keep a close eye on shady borrowers -and see if we can all make some money....'
Agreed. Name usenames and then you start a debate about whether the banning decision(s) were right. Just be glad the forum is back and move on. Admin/Mod is an unpaid job and they do their best with best intentions. If the Admins/Mods were being paid by us then we might be entitled to a say but its a free website and we all gain massively from it and the efforts of those who run it.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Apr 22, 2018 23:23:31 GMT
Like many others here, I check this website frequently when making Peer to Peer investment decisions. It has been acutely helpful on deciding the health of current platforms to see if entry is wise. Thank you for bringing it back up.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 23, 2018 7:30:11 GMT
I have been on the sharp end of some overly sensitive moderation here myself and I think it undermines the whole forum when decisions are taken to ban long standing contributors for reasons which may amount to nothing more than a personal dislike. Yes, but you haven't been banned, have you - you probably managed to have a rational discussion about it, and not do it again.. To get banned you need to repeatedly &/or apparently deliberately flout the forum rules (easily found at the top of the page), and even then most people get a warning or two first. It takes agreement by 4, or more, of the staff team (currently down to 6) to ban anyone for misbehaving (fewer for obvious spammers), so any personal dislike would have to be fairly widespread, unlike other forums which are apparently dictatorships. Disingenuous posting ('where has my good friend X gone, Oh why oh why won't he reply to me' .. when you know damn well from other sources where he/she has gone, and he/she knows damn well, and probably told you already, why they were banned) is not a recipe for popularity. Nor is lack of politeness to other posters (staff included, sadly .. no reason we have to take sniping any more than any other member). Historically we have probably put up with apparent shills and trolls rather longer than we should have done. People deliberately looking for the boundary ('what's the rudest word which I can get away with', 'How nasty can I be to Y without getting into trouble') are not likely to get especially kind treatment when they cross the boundary.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 8:09:47 GMT
I am very much on the fence here in that I can see both sides of the story.
There is some ridiculous behaviour from certain members making life for volunteering mods unnecessarily difficult creating conflict that is frankly ridiculous.
On the other side of the coin the newly created forum has given a voice to a few members I am very surprised to see banned given their excellent input over a long period and admittedly it's one side of the story but some do seem to have been given the boot quite harshly.
If members can be more respectful and mods can be more forgiving I'm sure we can move on just fine.
My final thought and strongest viewpoint is that although the volunteers do an amazing job they are the keepers of "our" forum. Here we have a community where we help to mould p2p, watch each others backs through DD and have even raised over 8k on KIVA for amazing causes. Taking this from us is a step too far and if it does need to be taken down, making it 100% clear it will reappear is a minimal requirement I would suggest. Many members myself included registered on a rapidly formed alternate forum simply because they had no idea if this would reappear!
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locutus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 1,622
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Post by locutus on Apr 23, 2018 8:23:32 GMT
GSV3MIaC in a civilised society, we don't normally lower ourselves to secret courts. If the judgement is valid and the decision merited, it can only strengthen your position to make it public. You can't blame people for being suspicious of seemingly arbitrary banning decisions without providing a justification. I note a new addition to the forum rules: Does this not seem a bit dictatorial to you and an example of what I'm talking about? Anyway, I've said my piece and we all have better things to do than debate this type of thing so I really will leave it at that. Hopefully, the members who were banned will rejoin under other handles and continue to contribute worthwhile insight and due diligence for the benefit of the wider community here.
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Post by dodgeydave on Apr 23, 2018 8:29:59 GMT
The next time admin spits its dummy out.
Why can't the forum not be read only ? Rather than close it down .
There is a lot of useful information on the forum .
The information is and should still be available to its contributors.
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rogerthat
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,048
Likes: 1,994
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Post by rogerthat on Apr 23, 2018 8:33:10 GMT
Whew!  I couldn't believe just how addictive the Indy is until it wasn't there, talk about rattling, glad to find a it fix ed this morning.Front line volunteering?  Nail & Head...frankly ive been in shock but at least I have sore butt bones as it forced me out on the new 29er bike yesterday which I swear has a blacksmiths anvil for a saddle. As one who has frequented the naughty step before though (IMHO) not for malicious reasons, I'm delighted to see it back. Frankly I don't think HO would have coped with the increase in demand and any response would have the potential whiff of favour and perhaps limited scope. Hoorah for the Indy, I say hoorah 
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averageguy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 895
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Post by averageguy on Apr 23, 2018 9:02:06 GMT
Some egos need to get deflated a little and i’m Not including the mods in that
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registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,618
Likes: 6,432
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Post by registerme on Apr 23, 2018 9:48:01 GMT
I didn't read whatever precipitated the temporary suspension of the forum so I can't comment about that (neither can I read staff discussions about it any more). I'd like to make a few general comments though:- 1. This is a free resource, the existence of which is due to the time put in by volunteers. 2. It is anonymous. 3. Available sanctions, where people break the forum rules, are limited. Where they repeatedly and / or deliberately break those rules, the set of sanctions becomes extremely limited. That's a shame, because sometimes it allows for limited finesse in dealing with situations, but those are the tools available to staff. The important point here is that they are used in response to rule breaking. No staff member wakes up in the morning hoping to ban somebody - frankly it's a pain in the proverbial and takes hours of time discussing the situation and reviewing the data. 4. I've got some sympathy with locutus' point about "secret courts", because intellectually and ethically I think he's correct. However, the forum staff already spend hours of their time a week maintaining this place. Public debate about the merits, or lack thereof, of any action taken by staff would consume significantly more time. And, frankly, add very little in the way of value. 5. If people are concerned about what they suspect to be malpractice or bad decision making on the part of forum staff they are free to apply to become staff. Then they can study the events, processes and discussions that take place (and have taken place - everything is recorded). I think it should be reassuring that no ex-staff member has turned round after the fact and been critical of the way the staff manage things. Equally in the past I've suggested that if a forumite wants to pay for it the staff would be happy for a lawyer to undertake an independent review / audit of everything. I think the way forwards is to remove the anonymity. That will achieve a number of things, not least of which is that some people might be inclined to be better behaved. However, effectively having to have a "KYC" function will cost money (verification, DPA, GPDR etc), and that will necessitate some kind of charge structure. There will be other consequences eg once people are paying for something they are unlikely to want the results to be available to all (so no more publicly readable forum), some may not like the loss of anonymity so will not sign up, and some may simply not want to pay. The flipside is that I suspect the signal to noise ratio might improve. Personally I stepped down as a staff member because I was tired of a) cleaning up after forumites who should know better, b) fending off pressure from platforms (and the occasional sniping at our "independence"). And lastly c) a perception that legal risk has increased for staff. |
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 23, 2018 10:25:27 GMT
[Mod Note] The posts relating to Lendy's Trust Pilot Reviews have been moved to a new thread on the Lendy board. |
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mickj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 435
Likes: 191
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Post by mickj on Apr 23, 2018 10:27:37 GMT
Back on thread....... so pleased to see the forum back - hope some of my favorite posters are still around, some amusing but unnecessary post sometimes bring a chuckle. I expect this is the only place I will see any feedback on Coll UK until official emails appear, I would not want to miss updates/posts after the court is finished.
Mods doing a good job in their own time - gets my vote every time, thank you all.
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mikeh
Member of DD Central
Posts: 499
Likes: 370
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Post by mikeh on Apr 23, 2018 10:41:53 GMT
Yes! We have no bananas, We have no bananas today. We’ve stringbeans, and onions, Cabbages and scallions And all kind of fruit, and say, We have an old fashioned tomato Long Island potato, But yes! We have no bananas, We have no bananas today! Please tell me it isn't true. Very Sad.  |
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,677
Likes: 2,974
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Post by michaelc on Apr 23, 2018 10:45:29 GMT
I didn't read whatever precipitated the temporary suspension of the forum so I can't comment about that (neither can I read staff discussions about it any more). I'd like to make a few general comments though:- 1. This is a free resource, the existence of which is due to the time put in by volunteers. 2. It is anonymous. 3. Available sanctions, where people break the forum rules, are limited. Where they repeatedly and / or deliberately break those rules, the set of sanctions becomes extremely limited. That's a shame, because sometimes it allows for limited finesse in dealing with situations, but those are the tools available to staff. The important point here is that they are used in response to rule breaking. No staff member wakes up in the morning hoping to ban somebody - frankly it's a pain in the proverbial and takes hours of time discussing the situation and reviewing the data. 4. I've got some sympathy with locutus ' point about "secret courts", because intellectually and ethically I think he's correct. However, the forum staff already spend hours of their time a week maintaining this place. Public debate about the merits, or lack thereof, of any action taken by staff would consume significantly more time. And, frankly, add very little in the way of value. 5. If people are concerned about what they suspect to be malpractice or bad decision making on the part of forum staff they are free to apply to become staff. Then they can study the events, processes and discussions that take place (and have taken place - everything is recorded). I think it should be reassuring that no ex-staff member has turned round after the fact and been critical of the way the staff manage things. Equally in the past I've suggested that if a forumite wants to pay for it the staff would be happy for a lawyer to undertake an independent review / audit of everything. I think the way forwards is to remove the anonymity. That will achieve a number of things, not least of which is that some people might be inclined to be better behaved. However, effectively having to have a "KYC" function will cost money (verification, DPA, GPDR etc), and that will necessitate some kind of charge structure. There will be other consequences eg once people are paying for something they are unlikely to want the results to be available to all (so no more publicly readable forum), some may not like the loss of anonymity so will not sign up, and some may simply not want to pay. The flipside is that I suspect the signal to noise ratio might improve. Personally I stepped down as a staff member because I was tired of a) cleaning up after forumites who should know better, b) fending off pressure from platforms (and the occasional sniping at our "independence"). And lastly c) a perception that legal risk has increased for staff. Personally, I would like to see a KYC and if a small charge and the forum going private was the price to pay, I think it would be worth it. I have a feeling I'd be in the minority though. Maybe the existing active members could be surveyed?
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 23, 2018 10:55:53 GMT
The next time admin spits its dummy out. Why can't the forum not be read only ? Rather than close it down . There is a lot of useful information on the forum . The information is and should still be available to its contributors. Simple answer - the forum currently consists of 127 boards, each have their own read/write permissions (five settings per board to control different aspects such as polls), so if you assume it will take a minute to edit and save the settings on each board, thats over 2 hours work to make the forum read only. And another two hours to open it up again. And thats before the hour plus it took to clean up the five threads that were trolled during Fri/Sat and occaisonally over the last couple of weeks, carefully leaving behind the posts discussing p2p loans and platforms but removing the noise. [...] My final thought and strongest viewpoint is that although the volunteers do an amazing job they are the keepers of "our" forum. Here we have a community where we help to mould p2p, watch each others backs through DD and have even raised over 8k on KIVA for amazing causes. Taking this from us is a step too far and if it does need to be taken down, making it 100% clear it will reappear is a minimal requirement I would suggest. Many members myself included registered on a rapidly formed alternate forum simply because they had no idea if this would reappear! There are multiple reasons why the forum staff may need to take the forum down temporarily, including on legal advice. As explained above, making the forum read only is a two plus hour process, one that will be undertaken prior to the complete closure of the forum should that point be reached. The message on the maintenance page did say the forum was "closed for the time being", I'm afraid it wasn't possible to be more specfic as to how long it would be down. The forum is indeed "our" resource ... but one that depends on a diminishing pool of volunteers to keep it open at all. Personally, I would like to see a KYC and if a small charge and the forum going private was the price to pay, I think it would be worth it. I have a feeling I'd be in the minority though. Maybe the existing active members could be surveyed?Watch this space over the next weeks / months.
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