Jeepers
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Post by Jeepers on Sept 13, 2018 13:25:49 GMT
What about DFL04 Only a mere 14 million pounds up in the air. Not even the decency to tell investors whether you have put the borrower into administration. Dear p2plender We don't think this is the right place to discuss individual loans. We would be happy to discuss this if you are able to contact us via our support page on our website. Kind regards The Lendy Team He didn’t ask for an update on here. Put an update out on the Lendy website. Why does he need to contact you for an individual update? At £14m, Lendy’s future is dependent on the outcome of this loan so it’s no time to be messing about.
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Post by p2plender on Sept 13, 2018 15:10:54 GMT
Myself and several others have contacted you via email without reply. Why the sudden interest in this forum after several months of missing in action? All looks a tad desperate.
DFL04 seem to happily plugging the development on Insta and twitter btw, all looks fine and dandy to all, except the investors. Any comment on administration can be put on this forum if you so care. Maybe I should ask them on twitter if they have gone into administration or are they in the dark, the same as us?
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Post by loftankerman on Sept 13, 2018 16:22:26 GMT
“The Monitoring Survey Reports are legal documents and are provided to us on a confidential basis. We have weighed up the pros and cons of making these available, but the legal advice we have been given is to keep them confidential.
They are also, by their nature, written with a certain degree of legalese and industry jargon, which may not be a problem to some sophisticated investors with knowledge of the bridging industry, but could be less helpful to a broader group of investors.
However, we continue to explore potential options for providing more information to investors on the loans they are invested in. We hope to respond further on this soon.”
You’d think that if Lendy can employ people so skilled as to understand the above, that is apparently too difficult for some of us to grasp, those persons would be able to summarise the information and provide adequate and honest appraisals of the ongoing situations to us, such that fears should be allayed and we would have good reason to be annoyed if they turned out to be untrue. Maybe they don’t have anyone like that on the payroll, which could be why we are where we are. Dear loftankerman The complicated nature of the Reports maybe less helpful to some investors, so we are looking at ways that will allow us to provide more detail on investors' loans whilst also taking into consideration the legal advice we have received. As always, we would be more than happy to discuss this over the phone with you if you could contact us at Support on the Lendy website. Kind regards The Lendy Team Dear Lendy Team, I'm a bit puzzled by your reply that you are looking into ways of providing more detail ... . The current aspect under discussion was Lendy's assertions about IMS reports. If you read my post again, you might find a pretty big clue in there as to what you could do about them. I may be being a bit unfair as it looks from your replies that you are working your way through a response flow chart drafted and approved by a legal team who'd be better off chasing money. I have no need to call you as anything I would challenge you about, (like, how come my anticipated DFL005 repayment appears to be funding sheds that I refused to touch with a bargepole, via a further DFL005 extension that you are now forecasting isn't going to pay up on time.) because I could probably give you a better and more honest answer than you can give me.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 13, 2018 16:52:00 GMT
1. IMS reports
However, we continue to explore potential options for providing more information to investors on the loans they are invested in. This reminds me of an interview I heard a year or so ago with the boss of UBER UK.
At the time UBER didn't report assaults by their drivers on customers to the police, instead just telling Transport for London. The interviewer asked the UBER man why they couldn't notify the police, and his reply was that they were working on a procedure to allow them to do it. No matter how often the interviewer pointed out that they didn't need a procedure, they just needed to dial 999, the UBER man continually repeated parrot fashion that all would be well once they had finalised the procedure.
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Post by p2plender on Sept 14, 2018 3:01:02 GMT
The whole DFL04 debacle is why I have long been warning investors about Lendy.
Why not stick a 'pop up' when you log in to your account? You're happy to do this on the very rare occasion anything good is to report. What's the problem?
Two weeks ago Lendy said they would appoint administrators if an improved offer wasn't received. So I presume investors are expected to wait for the monthly update (BS) to be written along with the rest of the disastrous investments Lendy have on the platform. Lendy investors are treated like school children, a "you'll be told when we decide and not you" type attitude. This "If you don't like it lump it" type attitude has prevailed for a good 12 months now. So the return of the Lendy spokesman (6 months missing in action) only tells me only one thing, us mere mortals are desperately needed once again...
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ganymede
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Post by ganymede on Sept 14, 2018 8:43:57 GMT
What about DFL04 Only a mere 14 million pounds up in the air. Not even the decency to tell investors whether you have put the borrower into administration. Dear p2plender We don't think this is the right place to discuss individual loans. We would be happy to discuss this if you are able to contact us via our support page on our website. Kind regards The Lendy Team I gave Lendy a 5 start review, stating fine for gamblers and Cowes fans, just it's not for me. DFL004 wasn't for me either sold off a long time ago, in fact I sold everything off at Lendy completing the sell off well over one year ago, and Lendy's balances have been firmly at £0 since. As said a gambling site win some lose some, some gambled and lost on DFL004, I cashed in my chips when ahead it's rare to beat a gaming house.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Sept 14, 2018 13:58:26 GMT
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Post by Lendy Support on Sept 18, 2018 13:18:15 GMT
Dear ilmoro, thank you for your questions. Below we have answered with as much information as possible which we hope will help provide more detail for you and other investors. Unfortunately, there are some questions that we are going to have to gather a bit more information in order to answer. Thanks for the reply and the answers Lendy Support . Im afraid you seem to have somewhat missed the point in places and not really answered a lot of the points which is my usual experience of the support process As i said if the MS was hired on the basis that they were going to made available to lenders (like the valuation reports which presumably are also legal & confidential documents) then that shouldnt be an issue. Arguing that they are too complicated for many of your investors to understand is disingenuous and suggests you have a disappointingly low opinion of your investors, though not low enough for them not to be able to understand a valuation & loan particulars to invest in the first place. Not sure why your investors are less sophisticated than on the platform that does provide them. I have no knowlwdge of the bridging industry, or more correctly the development industry, but can understand a report that says x work done, y still to do, enough cash from the proposal left to do it, which are the key bits of an IMS report. Based on the way some of the loans on the platform have turned out, lenders are questioning whether Lendy understand them themselves. Anyway I welcome your efforts to provide additional info for lenders. To be honest, not really. If someone is expecting to borrow a few million pounds I should expect that they should be prepared to hand over a bit of information about themselves. However, personal details arent especially important. What's lacking are details of their track record, previous projects, business history, credit ratings, associated parties, contractor, build plan (have a look at AC or Ablrate for examples of depth) Yeah, I know to complicated for your investors to understand but it definately needs to be more than a page. Seen a few which fit those criteria, but all of the ones that have been taken down? Looks like censoring of negative opinion. Im sure we all wish Tim a speedy recovery and the best for the future. However, my point was that you didnt communicate that hed gone to lenders, they had to find out for themselves (they even found out the reason before being told) which allowed speculation to run wild. Youre quick to trumpet all these new hires but dont consider the departure of a founder as something that is going to cause concern in the current climate. As I said manage the news cycle. You might have noticed something else has piqued the interest now in relation to Liam. Sorry I cant believe that every other platform has ignored HMRC advice and provides figures for claimable losses. A loan can be treated as irrecoverable once it has entered legal recovery ie administration, recievership and the platform can determine when that is. Its not a display issue, its a calculation and payment issue. Loans where the interest rate changed part way through the loan eg DFL014, have not been paying interest at the new rate. I believe that issue has been fixed for the last couple of months but the outstanding interest has not been paid. I and many others have contacted you but have yet to receive a resolution of the sums owed Unfortunately not my experience. See above. My last ticket was closed without the courtesy of a reply, or to date, the issue being fixed (different query to above) Sorry total nonsense. For a start your not a member and arbitarily following that definition whilst ignoring all the other aspects of their principles is farcical. Secondly that definition is in relation to reporting bad debt figures not defining a loan as in default. Im pretty sure the P2PFA would consider a loan where the security has been called in as in default. The P2PFA definition is itself out of date as it predates SAIM 12000. The best venue to discuss individual loans would be on the platform so all lenders can see the info but unfortunately you never really provided that facility so were stuck with doing it here or behind closed doors which doesnt really help anyone as you are having to address the same points repeatedly. Not possible until recently as trying to do by email was time consuming & usually pointless but now youve embraced the telephone a possibility. You probably dont, as the issues are fairly explanatory in the post but I look forward to your responses. Hi ilmoro, some points we can follow up on: IMS reports
We understand the point you are making here, and providing these reports is something we continue to discuss internally at Lendy. However, the legal advice we have at present is that the documents are for professional use only and should not be distributed more widely. Declaring a loss
The advice we have received is that we should not declare a loss unless it is crystallised. Of course, it is possible that losses could occur in the future, but our legal advisers’ interpretation of HMRC instructions and feedback is that potential losses should only be finalised once all recovery options have been exhausted, such as ongoing legal claims. Interest rate display issues
We will send you a private message on this specifically via your forum profile so we can deal with this problem. P2PFA default definitions
I think we may disagree on that point. Lendy uses the P2PFA (Peer 2 Peer Finance Association) definitions to label and assess its loan book performance. The P2PFA is the industry body for the peer to peer lending sector and the standards they set reflect best practice in the industry. See here for more information
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 18, 2018 13:48:14 GMT
Thanks for the reply and the answers Lendy Support . Im afraid you seem to have somewhat missed the point in places and not really answered a lot of the points which is my usual experience of the support process As i said if the MS was hired on the basis that they were going to made available to lenders (like the valuation reports which presumably are also legal & confidential documents) then that shouldnt be an issue. Arguing that they are too complicated for many of your investors to understand is disingenuous and suggests you have a disappointingly low opinion of your investors, though not low enough for them not to be able to understand a valuation & loan particulars to invest in the first place. Not sure why your investors are less sophisticated than on the platform that does provide them. I have no knowlwdge of the bridging industry, or more correctly the development industry, but can understand a report that says x work done, y still to do, enough cash from the proposal left to do it, which are the key bits of an IMS report. Based on the way some of the loans on the platform have turned out, lenders are questioning whether Lendy understand them themselves. Anyway I welcome your efforts to provide additional info for lenders. To be honest, not really. If someone is expecting to borrow a few million pounds I should expect that they should be prepared to hand over a bit of information about themselves. However, personal details arent especially important. What's lacking are details of their track record, previous projects, business history, credit ratings, associated parties, contractor, build plan (have a look at AC or Ablrate for examples of depth) Yeah, I know to complicated for your investors to understand but it definately needs to be more than a page. Seen a few which fit those criteria, but all of the ones that have been taken down? Looks like censoring of negative opinion. Im sure we all wish Tim a speedy recovery and the best for the future. However, my point was that you didnt communicate that hed gone to lenders, they had to find out for themselves (they even found out the reason before being told) which allowed speculation to run wild. Youre quick to trumpet all these new hires but dont consider the departure of a founder as something that is going to cause concern in the current climate. As I said manage the news cycle. You might have noticed something else has piqued the interest now in relation to Liam. Sorry I cant believe that every other platform has ignored HMRC advice and provides figures for claimable losses. A loan can be treated as irrecoverable once it has entered legal recovery ie administration, recievership and the platform can determine when that is. Its not a display issue, its a calculation and payment issue. Loans where the interest rate changed part way through the loan eg DFL014, have not been paying interest at the new rate. I believe that issue has been fixed for the last couple of months but the outstanding interest has not been paid. I and many others have contacted you but have yet to receive a resolution of the sums owed Unfortunately not my experience. See above. My last ticket was closed without the courtesy of a reply, or to date, the issue being fixed (different query to above) Sorry total nonsense. For a start your not a member and arbitarily following that definition whilst ignoring all the other aspects of their principles is farcical. Secondly that definition is in relation to reporting bad debt figures not defining a loan as in default. Im pretty sure the P2PFA would consider a loan where the security has been called in as in default. The P2PFA definition is itself out of date as it predates SAIM 12000. The best venue to discuss individual loans would be on the platform so all lenders can see the info but unfortunately you never really provided that facility so were stuck with doing it here or behind closed doors which doesnt really help anyone as you are having to address the same points repeatedly. Not possible until recently as trying to do by email was time consuming & usually pointless but now youve embraced the telephone a possibility. You probably dont, as the issues are fairly explanatory in the post but I look forward to your responses. Hi ilmoro, some points we can follow up on: IMS reports
We understand the point you are making here, and providing these reports is something we continue to discuss internally at Lendy. However, the legal advice we have at present is that the documents are for professional use only and should not be distributed more widely. Declaring a loss
The advice we have received is that we should not declare a loss unless it is crystallised. Of course, it is possible that losses could occur in the future, but our legal advisers’ interpretation of HMRC instructions and feedback is that potential losses should only be finalised once all recovery options have been exhausted, such as ongoing legal claims. Interest rate display issues
We will send you a private message on this specifically via your forum profile so we can deal with this problem. P2PFA default definitions
I think we may disagree on that point. Lendy uses the P2PFA (Peer 2 Peer Finance Association) definitions to label and assess its loan book performance. The P2PFA is the industry body for the peer to peer lending sector and the standards they set reflect best practice in the industry. See here for more information Lendy Support We're going round in circles. You are just replying with the same statements rather than engaging with the points made.
IMS - others do, you wont, nothing more to say
Losess - youre in a group of your own here, fortunately HMRC allows lenders to do it themselves Interest rate - already in contact via support P2PFA - 8 platforms does not a especially respresentative industry body make, if their standards reflect best practice why are you a) not a member, b) arguably, not following their principles ... claiming a loan is performing when the security is no longer in the possession of the borrower is ludicrious
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Sept 18, 2018 14:31:17 GMT
They won't listen. Unfortunately appear to be a complete set of arrogant bankers!
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wuzimu
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Post by wuzimu on Sept 18, 2018 14:38:43 GMT
They won't listen. Unfortunately appear to be a complete set of arrogant bankers! Balder, was your omission of the W fronting the last word of your post a typo? Regards Woozy
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Sept 18, 2018 15:30:18 GMT
Re: IMS reports - I've stated to Lendy on the telephone that I will not be investing in DFLs unless better (read: quantitative and qualitative) updates are provided with each and significant tranche request. (Not expecting them for those funding requests which are effectively tranches-within-tranches, the frequency of which _ strangely enough _ might actually reduce if meaningful updates were given!) Lendy Support , can you please: a) ask your legal advisers as to why they consider those who have declared themselves to be sophisticated enough to invest tens and, sometimes, hundreds of thousands of pounds aren't sophisticated enough to understand an IMS report, b) ask your legal advisers as to who they do consider qualified enough to understand an IMS report; and then confirm whether Lendy employ such people or not, c) on the basis that potentially complex legal scenarios can be discussed under an NDA, consider releasing IMS reports in full under a similar NDA arrangement.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Sept 18, 2018 19:31:19 GMT
Remember their legal adviser is probably their own in house head of legal!
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TheDriver
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Slightly bonkers
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Post by TheDriver on Sept 19, 2018 4:23:13 GMT
Re: IMS reports - I've stated to Lendy on the telephone that I will not be investing in DFLs unless better (read: quantitative and qualitative) updates are provided with each and significant tranche request. (Not expecting them for those funding requests which are effectively tranches-within-tranches, the frequency of which _ strangely enough _ might actually reduce if meaningful updates were given!) Lendy Support , can you please: a) ask your legal advisers as to why they consider those who have declared themselves to be sophisticated enough to invest tens and, sometimes, hundreds of thousands of pounds aren't sophisticated enough to understand an IMS report, b) ask your legal advisers as to who they do consider qualified enough to understand an IMS report; and then confirm whether Lendy employ such people or not, c) on the basis that potentially complex legal scenarios can be discussed under an NDA, consider releasing IMS reports in full under a similar NDA arrangement.
I cynically believe it reflects Lendy's own lack of understanding of these reports. Otherwise, how could a situation like DFL004 (and several others) have arisen, where tranches are released to complete the build and it ends up incomplete after all funds are issued! Plus of course the general "mushroom management" principle so there's nothing specific to question.
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zedi
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Post by zedi on Sept 19, 2018 8:43:05 GMT
P2PFA default definitions
I think we may disagree on that point. Lendy uses the P2PFA (Peer 2 Peer Finance Association) definitions to label and assess its loan book performance. The P2PFA is the industry body for the peer to peer lending sector and the standards they set reflect best practice in the industry. See here for more information Yes, the P2PFA is pointing in the right direction with their standards. But you are no member (why?) and as ilmoro already pointed out, you are selectively adhering to that default definition rule but neglecting other rules which is hypocrite. Since you aren´t memeber of the P2PFA nor adhering to all of their standards, it´s ridiculous the praise them in your posting. Here are some of their interesting other rules (https://www.p2pfa.org.uk/operating-principles/):
"3. Transparency
...
3.3 Platforms will disclose all fees and charges, including the weighted average rate of interest paid by borrowers (expressed as a gross rate including any reserve fund fees).
3.4 Platforms commit to publish prominently, on readily-accessible pages of their website, meaningful data reflecting bad debt rates and returns performance (net of fees and defaults) according to the standard P2PFA methodology defined in the Appendix to this document.
...
1. Bad Debt Rates
Platform disclosure on bad debt rates should include:
• Actual Arrears: the total outstanding loan balances on loans more than forty-five days late but not defaulted, expressed as a percentage of the amount lent in the calendar year;
• Actual Lifetime Bad Debt: total bad debt (defaults less actual recoveries) over the lifetime of the loans expressed as a percentage of the amount lent in a calendar year (this is not an annualised number);
• Expected Lifetime Bad Debt Rate: expected bad debt (expected defaults less recoveries) over the lifetime of the loans as a percentage of the amount lent in a calendar year estimated at the time of the origination of the loans (this is not an annualised number);
• Projected Lifetime Bad Debt Rate: latest bad debt projection for each yearly cohort using actual performance from the cohort to date plus projected future losses; and
• Actual Return: principal repaid as a proportion of the amount lent in a calendar year."
My bold. I fully understand that Lendy cannot disclose all information about the current recovery actions and therefore it´s hard to provide meaningful timely updates. I also understand that´s not in the interest of investors to always immediately enforce the loan. But I don´t see any reason why it shouldn´t be possible to have a detailed statistics page with recovery results (as is industry standard, not only for P2PFA platforms) and to disclose the fees you are charging. CrowdProperty has a very similar business model but they see the need for better business standards and therefore joined the P2PFA, so they proved that also property bridging finance platforms can operate under P2PFA rules. I will definitely move my money in this property sector to more transparent platforms, away from FundingSecure (with their weird definition of defaults) and Lendy towards Assets Capital and CrowdProperty.
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