xpubman1
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Post by xpubman1 on Aug 2, 2018 13:17:34 GMT
I agree with all you have written, I will be curious to know if they respond to your demand and furthermore any action going forward now that you have called their bluff.
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Post by loftankerman on Aug 2, 2018 13:35:06 GMT
I have employed surveyors on a few occasions. I have been of the opinion that their reports were written in such a self protecting manner, that if they had mistakenly surveyed the bus shelter up the road instead of the property, I still wouldn't have had a chance of getting any redress in court. That could be the brick wall Lendy have run into.
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Post by grotdog on Aug 2, 2018 13:35:25 GMT
I'll have a think about the RICS angle - we certainly know the names of many of the valuers, as the valuations are posted to the site (Key now, Lendy removes all the valuations, or edits them so we cant see the names of the valuers) - legally, could a third party sue the valuer on behalf of investors? I'm not a lawyer - but I can see very clear evidence of negligence - whether that is influenced by Lendy leaning on the valuer to give a glowing report - as in the case of the waste processing site - which is just a tin shed and acre or so of goat pasture, which was valued at multi millions on the basis of a crackpot business plan. In this case, the only concrete, recoverable cash value was the shed and land. RICS need to be pressured from a great height to issue professional guidance regarding the behaviour of their members when undertaking such valuations. It is coincidentally why some of our surveyors refuse to join RICS - not to mention the hefty annual membership fee - precisely what do we get for that Mr RICS?
Certianly it would not hurt for Lendy lenders to individually submit complaints to RICS about the valuations. Each has to be investigated - and they do NOT like formal complaints. Once a pattern has formed, they are going to find it very hard to slither out sideways and will have to either take action, or at the very least issue guidance, which will make it easier to sue those who issue silly money valuations. I agree with another poster that Lendy should be getting at least two, if not three independent valuations. Happy to try and co-ordinate something - I can't see Lendy doing a damn thing - they are too busy drinking champers and watching yachts.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Aug 2, 2018 15:45:44 GMT
Would mis-valuation include the valuer not knowing the area, therefore valuing the security based on something which sold, one or two roads away, but which is critically within a more expensive zone which mostly only locals would know about as they walk it. I know that this was a factor in asking for photos.
Or e.g. the security is nearer to a busy road, or council estate, or further from useful shops, but that's not being factored into the valuation. (Edited)
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Aug 2, 2018 19:31:33 GMT
Good to see everyone finally getting worked up about these "Professionals" and their VERY lucrative little "Industry". Go grotdpg!
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Aug 2, 2018 21:24:53 GMT
cwah , grotdog & Co, it is a shame you possibly/probably didn't read PBL157/PBL158 - R*****a & C****t, H****** Court Rd DEFAULT from 19 months ago when the uncovering of The Great VR ScamCon really started to kick off. I got severely lambasted at the time and if you go back and read the comments there are some who are, and rightly should be, severely embarrassed now at the stance they took and statements they made at the time.
This has been a ticking timebomb and my well known hobby horse which I valiantly warned about to no avail; minuscule heed was taken (bar one or two at the time - @mason, guff , pom I recall?) until more recently.
It is very, VERY, VERY clear to me what is going on with these "Professional Valuations".
To be honest, I think the Police should be involved - fornicate RICS, The Platforms, The Borrowers, The Introducers, The Ombudsman and The Useless FCA.
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pom
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Post by pom on Aug 3, 2018 7:57:40 GMT
cwah , grotdog & Co, it is a shame you possibly/probably didn't read PBL157/PBL158 - R*****a & C****t, H****** Court Rd DEFAULT from 19 months ago when the uncovering of The Great VR ScamCon really started to kick off. I got severely lambasted at the time and if you go back and read the comments there are some who are, and rightly should be, severely embarrassed now at the stance they took and statements they made at the time.
This has been a ticking timebomb and my well known hobby horse which I valiantly warned about to no avail; minuscule heed was taken (bar one or two at the time - @mason, guff , pom I recall?) until more recently.
It is very, VERY, VERY clear to me what is going on with these "Professional Valuations".
To be honest, I think the Police should be involved - fornicate RICS, The Platforms, The Borrowers, The Introducers, The Ombudsman and The Useless FCA. Umm no it wasn't actually the Valuations that did it for me - having had a few surveys and their caveats work for/against me personally in the past I've always accepted there's a lot of fudging, and that anything commercial is always going to involve even huger dollops of salt when so much of the value is dependent on trading figures/estimates. More of a gut thing for me, which has worked pretty well*. I never felt entirely comfortable with Lendy so only ever invested small amounts on the basis that I'd sell out before they were due, had sold out about 2/3 of my max anyway due to less attractive dealflow and was ready to pull the plug on the rest at any time. When they changed the SM I decided that was it - too risky to stay. So I sold the rest. Not quite quickly enough, as I didn't put it all up at once so I still have a little stuck in Exeter, but it's a trivial amount whose greatest annoyance is that I have to keep a spreadsheet column open for it! Logged in yesterday for the first time in ages and was aghast at just how many of the loans I was in are still there one year on, still not repaying *Might help sometimes to pay a bit more attention to it. Wasn't comfortable with COL but figured worth the risk on a small amount, and was gradually selling out. Hey ho.
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Post by nitpicker on Aug 3, 2018 10:44:15 GMT
Personally I allways injoy the wierd speling on this fourem
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Aug 3, 2018 11:21:35 GMT
Aren't valuer a profession ? And if it's an independent valuation, it should sometime under value and sometimes overvalue. Why do we see so much difference between the advertised LTV and the sell price? 70% LTV should be fairly safe in a normal world! Try halving 90D for those buyers that happen to be in auction room at the time. RICs values are not going to be sued over fire sales, they are not the valuations they provide us with.
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Aug 3, 2018 13:27:43 GMT
cwah , grotdog & Co, it is a shame you possibly/probably didn't read PBL157/PBL158 - R*****a & C****t, H****** Court Rd DEFAULT from 19 months ago when the uncovering of The Great VR ScamCon really started to kick off. I got severely lambasted at the time and if you go back and read the comments there are some who are, and rightly should be, severely embarrassed now at the stance they took and statements they made at the time.
This has been a ticking timebomb and my well known hobby horse which I valiantly warned about to no avail; minuscule heed was taken (bar one or two at the time - @mason, guff , pom I recall?) until more recently.
It is very, VERY, VERY clear to me what is going on with these "Professional Valuations".
To be honest, I think the Police should be involved - fornicate RICS, The Platforms, The Borrowers, The Introducers, The Ombudsman and The Useless FCA. I've read the thread. Seen no 'lambasting', to be honest, although it may be less obvious now the 'heat of battle' has cooled or it may be elsewhere? What came of your complaint to RICS? (I can't see it mentioned in that thread and apologies if you've covered it off elsewhere.)
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Aug 3, 2018 14:34:31 GMT
If not lambasting then certainly supporting the status quo and accepting "that's just the way things/VRs are." sort of comments. You know, the ole "Y ou don't get 12% without risk." reasoning, which totally misses the point I've been trying to make for 19 months. RICS basically didn't want to know. I've deleted my emails since then but will check my database in case I kept a copy of their mealy mouthed arse covering missive. I recall they don't think there's a problem at all.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Aug 9, 2018 12:34:11 GMT
If not lambasting then certainly supporting the status quo and accepting "that's just the way things/VRs are." sort of comments. You know, the ole "Y ou don't get 12% without risk." reasoning, which totally misses the point I've been trying to make for 19 months. RICS basically didn't want to know. I've deleted my emails since then but will check my database in case I kept a copy of their mealy mouthed arse covering missive. I recall they don't think there's a problem at all. I'd agree, that if most valuations are inaccurate and that's the norm, then 12% doesn't cover it. If, indeed, this is the norm, they should advertise as 'valuations can be up to 70% inaccurate in some cases'.
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Post by loftankerman on Aug 9, 2018 15:13:23 GMT
You could be forgiven for thinking that chartered bodies don't exist to enforce professional standards, but to support each other against claims that they have failed to observe them.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Aug 10, 2018 8:58:45 GMT
When I was applying for mortgages, the bank valuers provided valuations in a much more conservative way.
When they are not confident they would down value the property. And it felt that if it was going to go to auction it would sell close to valuation price.
Lendy (and other P2P valuers) do the exact opposite. They wildly overvalue assets.
I think it's because valuers need to do that in order to be hired.... And there are no downside from a overvalued report.
So there are upside for them to overvalue (likely to be hired) and not downside if it fails...
That's completely crazy
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nsinvestor
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Post by nsinvestor on Aug 10, 2018 10:03:27 GMT
The valuation reports always have an 'assumptions' section which provides the get out for the surveyor. P{hrases like 'we have relied upon information provided by ...', 'we assume planning is in place for the business purpose...', 'your solicitors should check title....'
This places the onus back onto Lendy to undertake thorough due diligence. I suspect the reason you don't hear Lendy say they are claiming valuer negligence is that the surveyors have probably already pointed out to them it was their own due diligence that was negligent
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