bg
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Post by bg on Aug 16, 2018 15:02:18 GMT
I'm not sure it's even worth bothering with but it's comments like this that I feel need challenging. The loan on this property was for £625k. To say that lenders have lost £1.8m+ is just complete misinformation. Pure lies, more lies and yet again lies. This looks like someone very close to FS.... Read the Knaresborough loans and you will see what the VALUATION is for that building. It is 3.500.000, as I have written, and its realisation was poor. Most valuations on FS are definitely WRONG and intentionally so (to please borrowers) (and this is shared with many other P2P platforms). This is one of the reasons I have stopped investing new money in P2 in 2017, after a decade of growth and I am suggesting the same to every single friend. We are in relatively benign times for the housing market (and pawn). Think about a slight recession and you will see these cowboys pop up one after the other. Wow. I'm really not sure what can be said. A loss of more than £1.8m on a £625k loan. You can't argue with that.
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Post by df on Aug 16, 2018 15:09:50 GMT
Random observation - a new £106k second charge property loan at 11% filled today in less than 30 minutes, with only 1.5 hr notice given of the go live. And first charge £85k Wake Green renewal at 11% filled in less than 3 minutes.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 16, 2018 15:16:09 GMT
Pure lies, more lies and yet again lies. This looks like someone very close to FS.... Read the Knaresborough loans and you will see what the VALUATION is for that building. It is 3.500.000, as I have written, and its realisation was poor. Most valuations on FS are definitely WRONG and intentionally so (to please borrowers) (and this is shared with many other P2P platforms). This is one of the reasons I have stopped investing new money in P2 in 2017, after a decade of growth and I am suggesting the same to every single friend. We are in relatively benign times for the housing market (and pawn). Think about a slight recession and you will see these cowboys pop up one after the other. Wow. I'm really not sure what can be said. A loss of more than £1.8m on a £625k loan. You can't argue with that. A loss of security is being discussed here - not a loss of loan money. Agreed it is necessary to be clear what is meant.
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 16, 2018 15:20:57 GMT
Wow. I'm really not sure what can be said. A loss of more than £1.8m on a £625k loan. You can't argue with that. A loss of security is being discussed here - not a loss of loan money. Agreed it is necessary to be clear what is meant. My reply was in response to "net loss of 1.800.000+ for lenders". To me that clearly indicates a £1.8m monetary loss to lenders as I am sure anyone reading it would assume (including many casual readers thinking about investing in the platform). I've never heard of people discussing a loss of security before.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 16, 2018 15:42:24 GMT
Random observation - a new £106k second charge property loan at 11% filled today in less than 30 minutes, with only 1.5 hr notice given of the go live. I didn't go for it because I look at FS property loans as 3 month investment opportunity at lower than advertised rate. Although the loan looks ok to me, I think being 2nd charge it will be difficult to sell it in November. Probably wrong strategy, but an attempt to reduce the risk. So that might explain why you're not happy the sm has slowed right down? I generally hold to term. It keeps me a little bit grounded regarding the kind of risk I'm exposed to. Whilst on/off the topic of the sm, I wish there were no limits at all. Want to sell a loan for a penny or a billion? Go for it....
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 16, 2018 15:47:22 GMT
My reply was in response to "net loss of 1.800.000+ for lenders". To me that clearly indicates a £1.8m monetary loss to lenders as I am sure anyone reading it would assume (including many casual readers thinking about investing in the platform). I've never heard of people discussing a loss of security before. The whole discussion on valuations comes precisely from YOUR OWN COMMENT: 'their valuation and LTV are not as "out of the whack" as the other platforms'. With numbers and examples I demonstrated you that the FS VALUATIONS are 'out of the whack', as in many other platforms and more than them! Feel free to invest 100% of your money with them (and loose most of it) if you are happy! Except I have never said that.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Aug 16, 2018 15:54:15 GMT
It was me who said that from some valuations I looked in areas I know (London).
I've decided to only invest in loans where I have a decent grasp of the security value and know grossly how much it should sell in auction should it default.
Fundingsecure seems to show much less overvaluation than a platform I thought was much more trustworthy a year ago (Lendy)
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coop
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Post by coop on Aug 16, 2018 15:54:39 GMT
My reply was in response to "net loss of 1.800.000+ for lenders". To me that clearly indicates a £1.8m monetary loss to lenders as I am sure anyone reading it would assume (including many casual readers thinking about investing in the platform). I've never heard of people discussing a loss of security before. The whole discussion on valuations comes precisely from YOUR OWN COMMENT: 'their valuation and LTV are not as "out of the whack" as the other platforms'. With numbers and examples I demonstrated you that the FS VALUATIONS are 'out of the whack', as in many other platforms and more than them! Feel free to invest 100% of your money with them (and loose most of it) if you are happy! May as well own your mistake and admit you misspoke; although I don't think you did so intentionally.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Aug 16, 2018 16:12:20 GMT
Just to illustrate what I say, I'm going to give an example of loans I have invested in:
Lendy:
DFL017 - 17*** O** M****, London: When I started (a couple of year ago), I had total confidence in LTV displayed by Lendy and barely checked the loan. Assuming the 37% LTV was protected enough. But then when it defaulted, checking the valuation it really felt it was out of the whack.
Fundingsecure:
- I recently invested in 4906730174 (Property G*** G***) and just today in 1296482581 (M*** A***, H***) because I know the areas in London and I know the price sold there. I know it should not (never say never...) sell below 70% of the valuation because i've been looking for years in the area.
So these are the foundation of my comment. I never invested in anything I wouldn't able to value (ie. Microsculture) and made a mistake being too trustworthy from advertised valuation.
ps: if I have the time I'll write my reasoning behind the valuation on these properties
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Post by df on Aug 16, 2018 16:28:38 GMT
I didn't go for it because I look at FS property loans as 3 month investment opportunity at lower than advertised rate. Although the loan looks ok to me, I think being 2nd charge it will be difficult to sell it in November. Probably wrong strategy, but an attempt to reduce the risk. So that might explain why you're not happy the sm has slowed right down? I generally hold to term. It keeps me a little bit grounded regarding the kind of risk I'm exposed to. Whilst on/off the topic of the sm, I wish there were no limits at all. Want to sell a loan for a penny or a billion? Go for it.... I did hold (and still do with most non-property loans) to term and this left me with significant proportion of my funds locked. I generally prefer holding to term, for instance on ABL my sales activity has always been very low. I wouldn't mind FS bringing back previous limit or scrap the limit all together, I'll just have to change my strategy to adapt to it.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Aug 16, 2018 16:44:07 GMT
I was pretty close to selling out every last (available) penny of my FS investment until today, when I decided to take a bit of Brighton.
I wouldn't quite say "green shoots" yet, but given my exposure was close to zero and they've actually managed to close a handful of loans out then I think what appears to be a solid loan is a reasonable bet.
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Post by brightspark on Aug 16, 2018 16:48:38 GMT
Interesting read in The Times (page 4 of 16/08/2018) entitled "Traders joked about destroying housing market before (2008) crash." RBS subsequently settled with the US Department of Justice for $4.9 Billion about misleading investors over sales of residential mortgage-backed securities between 2005 and 2007.
Quotes in the article include:-
""RBS bought total f***ing garbage mortgages with fraud so rampant before disguising the loans to look OK and selling them on to investors."
"(Bank) Executives showed little regard for their misconduct and internally made light of it."
"RBS's process for checking risky loans was just a bunch of bullshit."
History has I believe a habit of repeating itself.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Aug 16, 2018 17:17:58 GMT
Excuse me, I checked of P2P FS land for a while (World cup, summer, got a life etc), but what the Dickens is this?
Q****and Place, H**d Park - Supplemental Facility - Tranche 2 (8882172513)
Is this really an FS loan facility ranking behind another FS loan facility, on a charge that ranks behind another FP's charge, on an FS Development Loan?
As if any one of those aspects wouldn't make this a risky loan to be in, this one combines all 3? Really?
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 16, 2018 17:26:04 GMT
Interesting read in The Times (page 4 of 16/08/2018) entitled "Traders joked about destroying housing market before (2008) crash." RBS subsequently settled with the US Department of Justice for $4.9 Billion about misleading investors over sales of residential mortgage-backed securities between 2005 and 2007. Quotes in the article include:- ""RBS bought total f***ing garbage mortgages with fraud so rampant before disguising the loans to look OK and selling them on to investors." "(Bank) Executives showed little regard for their misconduct and internally made light of it." "RBS's process for checking risky loans was just a bunch of bullshit." History has I believe a habit of repeating itself. Except for RBS/Banks, read "Certain P2P Platforms." 
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 16, 2018 17:35:04 GMT
Interesting read in The Times (page 4 of 16/08/2018) entitled "Traders joked about destroying housing market before (2008) crash." RBS subsequently settled with the US Department of Justice for $4.9 Billion about misleading investors over sales of residential mortgage-backed securities between 2005 and 2007. Quotes in the article include:- ""RBS bought total f***ing garbage mortgages with fraud so rampant before disguising the loans to look OK and selling them on to investors." "(Bank) Executives showed little regard for their misconduct and internally made light of it." "RBS's process for checking risky loans was just a bunch of bullshit." History has I believe a habit of repeating itself. Except for RBS/Banks, read "Certain P2P Platforms." And there was I thinking he was talking about potatoes.... 
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