hazellend
Member of DD Central
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Post by hazellend on Sept 23, 2020 11:43:53 GMT
One of the first potential sales for AE is 6 Wood Avens and this is not looking good. RICS valn was £195k on which AE said they got a discount of £15k reducing the cost to £180k. There was then £16k of acquisition costs of which AE got £6k taking the final cost to £196k. It is now being marketed at £190k having been reduced by AE to try to obtain a sale and there will be selling costs further reducing any proceeds.
Hope this is not typical but not a good start
Saw this so many times with other property sites. Thought they got huge discount on market value, but somehow couldn’t sell them within a further 20 % + discount
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Post by PeterAssetzExchange on Sept 23, 2020 13:34:17 GMT
One of the first potential sales for AE is 6 Wood Avens and this is not looking good. RICS valn was £195k on which AE said they got a discount of £15k reducing the cost to £180k. There was then £16k of acquisition costs of which AE got £6k taking the final cost to £196k. It is now being marketed at £190k having been reduced by AE to try to obtain a sale and there will be selling costs further reducing any proceeds.
Hope this is not typical but not a good start
Saw this so many times with other property sites. Thought they got huge discount on market value, but somehow couldn’t sell them within a further 20 % + discount We agree, this property is proving a bit sticky given the current environment but it is mortgage free with a large cash balance so there is no pressure to sell at a low price. Investors also have the option of letting out again if they so wish. It is also worth noting that in this instance Avant did not agree to sell the property on our behalf. As a result, we have had to use an external agent who is less familiar with the development. However, on the other showhomes we purchased from Avant they have agreed to sell the properties once the lease expires. In terms of balance, I think it's only fair to draw attention to the other properties we have for sale. Two of which we bought for £150k and have agreed sales of £210k and £205k - on average these sales are above the RICS values we received on these properties. We are very close to completion on both of these sales, just going through the final legals.
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Post by oatibiscuit on Oct 4, 2020 14:47:25 GMT
PeterAssetzExchange I have been exploring the platform, which looks great, and I hope you can shed light on a few questions I have:
1) As a Property Partner investor since it's early days, I'm naturally inclined to draw a comparison. I was impressed by property partner, but like many others, was disappointed by their introduction of further fees, focus towards high net worth and the general stalling of momentum. What makes Assetz Exchange different? And do you have a superior business model that will avoid you having to impose heavy fees down the line? (I understand PP is an equity model and AE is debt, but this seems to me largely a difference in form rather than substance).
2) Do you plan to use gearing in future to deliver enhanced yields? Leverage is a crucial element of the BTL model, so without leverage it feels like you are not offering a complete BTL solution. Others have speculated on this thread that the 5% capital returns cap is due to the type of regulartory permissions (can you confirm on this?). Presumably, this would rule out gearing because it just makes >5% capping more likely.
3) Please could you provide a general update on the platforms's activity and pipeline? No doubt there has been some email comms, but as a new member I have no idea what's going on, e.g. there appears to be no messaging or blog posts about the impact of covid and the platform's plans for the future.
4) What is the level of financial interconnectivity between Assetz Capital and Assetz Exchange? All P2P investors are desperate to diversify away their platform risk in what appears to be a souring industry, so I'm anxious about putting more of my eggs into the Assetz basket.
5) Fees are confusing. You have stated on this thread that the sourcing fee has been discontinued, and that there are no fees for buying on the exchange, and yet this is contradicted in the FAQs (which is already a bit obscure). Fees detail should be front and centre. Doing this doesn't put off investors, it encourages them because they know what they are buying. The FAQ on fees also doesn't mention the 5% cap. I know it's not technically a fee, but it feels like one so should be in the same section. 2% AE monitoring fee - why is this not mentioned in the FAQ? Also, it's called a monitoring fee in the income forecast but a management fee in the conditions, which adds to confusion.
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Post by PeterAssetzExchange on Oct 5, 2020 10:43:39 GMT
PeterAssetzExchange I have been exploring the platform, which looks great, and I hope you can shed light on a few questions I have:
Thanks, we have been working hard on a new website (and released a beta version to select users last week) which we hope will be a great improvement on the existing one We don’t have the same regulatory restrictions as platforms with equity permissions, who are required by the FCA to limit their investor base to high net worth individuals as we are a P2P platform in regulatory terms. Investor categorisation is something that we know the FCA are keeping a close eye on. On fees, we are trying to be fully transparent and keep our cost base very low. We have spent a lot of time automating our internal processes which is allowing us to reduce man hours on administrative tasks. We charge an upfront fee on the original purchase of each property and an ongoing management fee for the monitoring, collection and distribution of income of each investment. Going forward we are pivoting away from AST properties towards properties on full repair and maintenance under long leases (5y+). This dramatically reduces the administrative burden and also pays a higher return to investors. We have signed pre-lease agreements with one charity and are currently in legals on several property purchases - we are hopeful of launching these on the platform soon. We have discussed this and it is something we won’t rule out in the future. For now however we are proceeding with cash purchases only. Gearing increases risk, as can be evidenced with other platforms (and property funds) who have had to suspend dividend payments to investors over the past few months as vacancies have meant they can’t fund their interest payments. This has not been the case with us and we have properties yielding 6-7% unleveraged. If the demand is there in the future it is something we will consider but we believe there will also always be a demand for ungeared investments. There is a cap in place at the moment but we are very confident of getting this lifted significantly in the near future. Please note this is an annualised cap so a property held for 5 years would have a 28% compounded cap. In the meantime we do not think this will have any effect on existing properties on the platform. We have been negotiating for some months with a number of charities about supplying them with properties for them to lease from us on long term contracts (assisted living etc). We are very excited about this, it should provide our investors with a stable investment on a long lease on a good yield. As mentioned above, we have signed pre lease agreements with one, and are in the process of purchasing several properties (which have been fully underwritten). Other charities and properties will follow. We are two distinct companies, with different management teams albeit with some overlap in shareholders. We do not rely on them financially or otherwise and vice versa. This will be addressed in detail in the new website. We charge an upfront fee and an ongoing monitoring fee, both of which can be viewed within the property details of each property.
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Post by gramsky on Apr 13, 2021 10:52:11 GMT
I have been investing in P2P Lending for several years and because of the failure of a couple of P2P sites am looking to diversify into other sites for this years ISA and started looking at Assetz Exchange. The thing that concern me are: a) how liquid are the investments if you need to sell? and b) how accurate are the predicted yields and doesn't the spread between buy and sell prices greatly reduce this if you need to sell your investment ie do you actually make a profit at the end of the day?
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Post by PeterAssetzExchange on Apr 13, 2021 16:34:48 GMT
I have been investing in P2P Lending for several years and because of the failure of a couple of P2P sites am looking to diversify into other sites for this years ISA and started looking at Assetz Exchange. The thing that concern me are: a) how liquid are the investments if you need to sell? and b) how accurate are the predicted yields and doesn't the spread between buy and sell prices greatly reduce this if you need to sell your investment ie do you actually make a profit at the end of the day? Hi gramsky . Thanks for your interest in our platform. Our forecast yields are rent less all known costs as a percentage as the current best selling price on the exchange (ie the price you would pay to buy in). Late last year we decided to change our direction as a business. We have abandoned traditional BTL investments and have instead moved into providing accommodation that will be leased to charities on long term leases (typically 5-10 years) on a full repair and maintenance basis. This has the benefit for the investor that there will be no voids or repair costs as all of these are borne by the charity themselves. This means the forecast yield should be what you do indeed receive. In addition to this, the rents are inflation linked (i.e. increase each year in line with inflation) and typically backed by a government contract. The last 6 properties we have launched have been on this basis and this will be our direction going forwards, provisioning investors with a stable, inflation linked income. Furthermore, the investor is helping to provide vulnerable people with much needed accommodation. For example, recently we provided a bungalow in Devon for the charity United Response on a 10y inflation linked lease to house 2 people with autism and their carer. Regarding liquidity. The majority of our users invest on a buy and hold basis. We do have an active secondary market, so far this month £140,000 worth of transactions on £6m worth of property but this is increasing month on month as we grow. We have seen the majority of the prices on the exchange increase over time (and investors benefit from the capital growth if they choose to sell). Generally we find that if investors sell at a discount to the current market price then buyers will often emerge to take them out of their position. We would however point out that investments of this nature should not be undertaken with a short time frame in mind. Assetz Exchange should be treated as a long term investment but with an available secondary market if an investor ever needs to liquidate their investment. If you would like to be talked through the platform in greater detail, please email helpdesk@assetzexchange.co.uk and we can organise a call.
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Post by Ace on Apr 13, 2021 17:44:30 GMT
I have been investing in P2P Lending for several years and because of the failure of a couple of P2P sites am looking to diversify into other sites for this years ISA and started looking at Assetz Exchange. The thing that concern me are: a) how liquid are the investments if you need to sell? and b) how accurate are the predicted yields and doesn't the spread between buy and sell prices greatly reduce this if you need to sell your investment ie do you actually make a profit at the end of the day? I've been with AE for about 18 months now. I currently hold 12 of their properties. My platform XIRR (excluding cashback) is 5.98%, which agrees pretty closely with the platform's reported "Average AER net yield" of 5.94%. My XIRR including cashback is 9.54%. I haven't tried to sell any properties yet, so can't comment on liquidity. Yes, the buy/sell spread would reduce profit, so probably best to only invest if you expect it to be for a decent length of time.
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Post by Ace on Apr 14, 2021 15:53:33 GMT
Hi PeterAssetzExchange, I took a look at loan #126 (O*d B*sf*rd) today and I'm a little confused about some of the figures. This property has a RICS valuation of £200k, but a massive FCC of over £76k. Clicking on the FCC gives a breakdown of the figure, including a contingency of £46k. The "At A Glance" pane shows a contingency balance of £14k. Can you talk us through the figures please? Does this indicate that £32k of the original contingency has been spent? If so, has it added value above the £200k valuation? If so, how much? Am I correct in thinking that if I were to purchase at the current live price of £214k I would effectively be purchasing a property with a RICS valuation of 200k for the princely sum of £280k (live price + FCC)? If so, that's a premium of 40% above the RICS valuation, and is equivalent to 6 years income at the current yield of 6.6%. I feel that I must be missing something.
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Post by PeterAssetzExchange on Apr 15, 2021 7:56:17 GMT
I have been investing in P2P Lending for several years and because of the failure of a couple of P2P sites am looking to diversify into other sites for this years ISA and started looking at Assetz Exchange. The thing that concern me are: a) how liquid are the investments if you need to sell? and b) how accurate are the predicted yields and doesn't the spread between buy and sell prices greatly reduce this if you need to sell your investment ie do you actually make a profit at the end of the day? I've been with AE for about 18 months now. I currently hold 12 of their properties. My platform XIRR (excluding cashback) is 5.98%, which agrees pretty closely with the platform's reported "Average AER net yield" of 5.94%. My XIRR including cashback is 9.54%. I haven't tried to sell any properties yet, so can't comment on liquidity. Yes, the buy/sell spread would reduce profit, so probably best to only invest if you expect it to be for a decent length of time. We would agree that Assetz Exchange should be viewed as a long term investment. XIRR however only tells part of the story here. Investors are in full control of their investments on AE and benefit from any growth in the values of the properties. Of course exiting on the secondary market is liquidity dependent but ignoring the properties launched in the last few weeks, capital growth experienced by the properties is around 6%. While the majority of our investors are strictly buy and hold many have recycled their holdings to lock in capital gains to recycle into new opportunities. As a long term investment we expect residential property prices to continue to appreciate as they have done over the decades. This will particularly be the case if inflation picks up as we are expecting it to in the years ahead.
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Post by PeterAssetzExchange on Apr 15, 2021 8:36:31 GMT
Hi PeterAssetzExchange , I took a look at loan #126 (O*d B*sf*rd) today and I'm a little confused about some of the figures. This property has a RICS valuation of £200k, but a massive FCC of over £76k. Clicking on the FCC gives a breakdown of the figure, including a contingency of £46k. The "At A Glance" pane shows a contingency balance of £14k. Can you talk us through the figures please? Does this indicate that £32k of the original contingency has been spent? If so, has it added value above the £200k valuation? If so, how much? Am I correct in thinking that if I were to purchase at the current live price of £214k I would effectively be purchasing a property with a RICS valuation of 200k for the princely sum of £280k (live price + FCC)? If so, that's a premium of 40% above the RICS valuation, and is equivalent to 6 years income at the current yield of 6.6%. I feel that I must be missing something. Hi AceThanks for your questions. You are right that the original contingency taken was £46k and that this now stands at £14k. The difference is primarily the c£30k that was spent on refurbishment/improvements to the two properties, including new kitchens, new bathrooms, decorating, knocking walls down, installing new doors (front and back), installing smoke alarms etc. These works will have added to the value of the properties and investors are able to vote for new valuations to be undertaken, although the cost of this would be taken from the remaining contingency balance. Furthermore, this property is leased to Nacro on a 5-year inflation linked lease at above market rent (with no voids and Nacro paying for all repairs). There is a high likelihood that Nacro will renew this lease at the end of the term (they have told us they renew over 95% of their leases). Having this lease in place adds considerable value to the property as an investment proposition and this is also not reflected in the bricks and mortar RICS valuation. All these factors have to be taken into account when considering an investment in this opportunity and demand from investors has pushed up the price of this property on our exchange by 4% from the launch price. A further consideration is that it is highly unlikely that investors will vote to physically sell these properties while such a lease is in place (and we are hopeful that Nacro will continue to roll the lease). If investors sell their holdings on our exchange they will receive the FCC (stamp duty, legal fees, refurbishment costs, our fee) they paid upfront back from the investor they sell to. This is an advantage over physically selling a traditional BTL where upfront costs such as stamp duty and legal fees will be lost.
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Post by oatibiscuit on May 1, 2021 17:49:42 GMT
Peter, please can you explain how the funding works?
On property partner for example, there is a clear funding period, and once the property is fully funded it trades on the resale market. On AE it's not clear what's actually going on. Am I buying from AE itself (or an underwriter)?, and if sellers offer a discount then does AE stop selling until the market price returns to the list price?
How much of the loan book has been funded and is there a way that I can see this information?
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Post by PeterAssetzExchange on May 6, 2021 8:16:22 GMT
Peter, please can you explain how the funding works?
On property partner for example, there is a clear funding period, and once the property is fully funded it trades on the resale market. On AE it's not clear what's actually going on. Am I buying from AE itself (or an underwriter)?, and if sellers offer a discount then does AE stop selling until the market price returns to the list price?
How much of the loan book has been funded and is there a way that I can see this information?
Good morning, I apologise for the delay in getting back to your question. All properties are funded by underwriters(premium investors) to ensure availability of funds. The underwriters then sell down on the Exchange and we ensure there is plenty of availability for investors at the list price. If the underwriters sell at a discount to the list price then investors receive the full benefit. Anyone can become an underwriter(premium investor), please see this link for further details.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 6, 2021 8:28:26 GMT
Peter, please can you explain how the funding works?
On property partner for example, there is a clear funding period, and once the property is fully funded it trades on the resale market. On AE it's not clear what's actually going on. Am I buying from AE itself (or an underwriter)?, and if sellers offer a discount then does AE stop selling until the market price returns to the list price?
How much of the loan book has been funded and is there a way that I can see this information?
Good morning, I apologise for the delay in getting back to your question. All properties are funded by underwriters(premium investors) to ensure availability of funds. The underwriters then sell down on the Exchange and we ensure there is plenty of availability for investors at the list price. If the underwriters sell at a discount to the list price then investors receive the full benefit. Anyone can become an underwriter(premium investor), please see this link for further details. Working link www.assetzexchange.co.uk/premium.html NB min goes up to £25k shortly
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Post by Ace on May 6, 2021 9:16:41 GMT
Good morning, I apologise for the delay in getting back to your question. All properties are funded by underwriters(premium investors) to ensure availability of funds. The underwriters then sell down on the Exchange and we ensure there is plenty of availability for investors at the list price. If the underwriters sell at a discount to the list price then investors receive the full benefit. Anyone can become an underwriter(premium investor), please see this link for further details. Working link www.assetzexchange.co.uk/premium.html NB min goes up to £25k shortly Anyone willing to spill the beans on the level of cashback offered?
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Post by overthehill on May 6, 2021 10:07:31 GMT
Nearly 5 years ago, I thought the future of buy to let was Property Partner, my reality is an average of 1.1% return pa and still heading in the wrong direction.
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