Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 14, 2022 13:42:38 GMT
Following the email of shareholder resolutions voting document it is still unclear what is left of the property portfolio and what it is worth, however, it is certain that shareholders will suffer losses, as highlighted in paragraph 2 of the notes for option 3. Email? Last thing I had was the update discussing the scenarios. Is this something since? Docusign document received yesterday at 19:50, perhaps they are sending them in batchs?
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paulgul
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Post by paulgul on Oct 16, 2022 8:56:49 GMT
I received mine on the 13th as well, I think I'm going for option 2, been waiting long enough now, may as well wait a bit longer and get the least losses
Paul
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 16, 2022 9:56:46 GMT
I received mine on the 13th as well, I think I'm going for option 2, been waiting long enough now, may as well wait a bit longer and get the least losses Paul Whats the deadline for the vote? Looks like Im going to have to chase
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paulgul
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Post by paulgul on Oct 16, 2022 18:20:19 GMT
Strangely enough I can't see a date either in the email or document
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 17, 2022 15:30:59 GMT
Just received an email requesting an immediate response.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 17, 2022 15:53:30 GMT
Apparently it is being sent in batches to allow time for discussions with investors if required.
Although there is no quoted deadline yet they are trying to deal with each batch before moving on to the next.
It seems that about 10% have received it so far and allegedly most of those have voted in favour.
Option 1 allows for another vote if there will be less than 20% return, option 2 does not provide for another vote if the return is less than 60%.
I responded after 4 days and the link had expired so they sent another, clearly expecting responses within less time than that.
There is no need to "sign up for a FREE Docusign account today" as a copy of the completed document is emailed anyway.
Signing approval to the resolutions seems to give the trustees carte blanche to do whatever they want and indemnifies them.
Oh well, probably no worse than agreeing to Google T&Cs...
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Post by salv on Oct 19, 2022 9:37:35 GMT
The last communication does not look promising to me... If you read old emails they were always promising dividends and good returns. Everything is wrong and opaque since properties were moved from SPVs to UKDP... I would have never invested if I knew that was coming. I was very careful to choose promising SPVs, but then placed in that UKDP with all types of properties. The options that were given to redeem in the past were at 40% loss unfairly (but now this is even worse). It looks to me they have used that UKDP to put there all possible losses and gain time... Playing advocate's devil, how can we be reassured that they are not emptying the accounts with unreasonable salaries, expenses, sales, management of previous Property Moose, etc. Does anyone have access to records of accounts?? On Company House the available information is just 4 numbers. I can't understand how they are in losses: houses and flats have increased in price in the last years, rent has been regularly received, interest rates were low, we funded them with lot of money, etc. unless they have been charging unreasonable expenses and losses...
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 19, 2022 10:07:51 GMT
The last communication does not look promising to me... If you read old emails they were always promising dividends and good returns. Everything is wrong and opaque since properties were moved from SPVs to UKDP... I would have never invested if I knew that was coming. I was very careful to choose promising SPVs, but then placed in that UKDP with all types of properties. The options that were given to redeem in the past were at 40% loss unfairly (but now this is even worse). It looks to me they have used that UKDP to put there all possible losses and gain time... Playing advocate's devil, how can we be reassured that they are not emptying the accounts with unreasonable salaries, expenses, sales, management of previous Property Moose, etc. Does anyone have access to records of accounts?? On Company House the available information is just 4 numbers. I can't understand how they are in losses: houses and flats have increased in price in the last years, rent has been regularly received, interest rates were low, we funded them with lot of money, etc. unless they have been charging unreasonable expenses and losses... Fundamental problems with the portfolio include low value, poor quality, unattractive old buildings in undesirable areas, high cost of repairs and administration, and probably many problematic tenants.
Choice now is to take 20p in the pound in December or wait for a year or two and get possibly double that.
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Post by salv on Oct 19, 2022 10:25:09 GMT
Steerpike, do you believe option 2 will materialise? If they only have 21 properties left out of 100, how selling 21% of properties can double the redemption? If one property does not get sold, wouldn't this delay infinitely the option 2 redemption while their directors' salaries (who knows how much) empty the accounts?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 19, 2022 11:17:48 GMT
Steerpike , do you believe option 2 will materialise? If they only have 21 properties left out of 100, how selling 21% of properties can double the redemption? If one property does not get sold, wouldn't this delay infinitely the option 2 redemption while their directors' salaries (who knows how much) empty the accounts? There are no certainties, however, I do not believe that the people involved are evil, I think that they showed poor judgment and didn't manage the business very well.
What is your interest in this matter?
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Post by salv on Oct 19, 2022 12:31:22 GMT
thanks for your opinion. My interest is in the shares I have in UKDP. I don't want to lose this money...
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Oct 19, 2022 14:51:40 GMT
Seems most of the money is already lost, and the outlook for the property market is, well, not the best it's ever been.
With hindsight, taking the (lesser) capital loss and exiting a few years ago prior to the formation of UKDP was the best option. (Similar with Property Partner when they changed their fee structure). On a happier note, the loan notes were redeemed in full.
I am not sure about the "recouping the losses" option. Sounds like further wishful thinking to me. I went for the "decide at the time" holding option. But will likely exit when offered it after everything sold.
I had already written off half the remaining in capital in UKDP, will now trim a little more.
Also sounds like it will give some crystallised capital losses to offset (not that there are many remaining capital gains elsewhere in my portfolio!)
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Nov 7, 2022 6:00:55 GMT
Steerpike is 20p an estimate or was it in the info you received - I think I was in a later batch & don't recall seeing anything so clear. I had (for my mental health) written off what I had in PM, so getting the loan notes money was a pleasant shock. What is the default option - I was in the group told they had ran out of docusign quota & don't have ready access to a scanner & printer.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Nov 7, 2022 9:48:52 GMT
Steerpike is 20p an estimate or was it in the info you received - I think I was in a later batch & don't recall seeing anything so clear. I had (for my mental health) written off what I had in PM, so getting the loan notes money was a pleasant shock. What is the default option - I was in the group told they had ran out of docusign quota & don't have ready access to a scanner & printer. December payout of 20p per share is my estimate based on information provided in the August update.
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Post by salv on Dec 1, 2022 16:16:36 GMT
Today they have informed we can exit taking 0.2 pence per share (that's 20% of invested). And now they foresee an exit at the end of selling everything (20 houses left) would be maximum 40% of original price. In August they said it would be maximum 60%. It is frustrating we are just given round numbers, no details at all, and we have to believe everything....
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