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Post by Ace on Oct 16, 2018 15:15:00 GMT
To be honest times were tough but we were in no way anywhere near some of the people who literally had nothing and there always seem to be a lot more of them now too. One of the problems these days is that 'poverty' is measured relative to median salary, e.g. if you're below 60% of median salary you're considered to be in poverty. Stupid definition imo, because you could given everybody literally £1m/yr pay increase and it would make no difference to the number in poverty.Actually, by that definition it would move everyone above the poverty line. The median salary would rise to roughly £1,027,300, which would make the 60% poverty line roughly £616,380. Since everyone was given a £1m/yr pay rise they would all now earn far more than the new poverty line.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Oct 16, 2018 15:37:58 GMT
One of the problems these days is that 'poverty' is measured relative to median salary, e.g. if you're below 60% of median salary you're considered to be in poverty. Stupid definition imo, because you could given everybody literally £1m/yr pay increase and it would make no difference to the number in poverty.Actually, by that definition it would remove everyone above the poverty line. The median salary would rise to roughly £1,027,300, which would make the 60% poverty line roughly £616,380. Since everyone was given a £1m/yr pay rise they would all now earn far more than the new poverty line. Good point, I was clearly wrong, but I still think it's a stupid definition - anybody who's seen poverty in the third world knows we have very little of that in the UK.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Oct 16, 2018 23:38:23 GMT
Nice thought but miles away from reality link if if people don’t have the willpower to not live beyond their means and instead squander their earnings on booze, fags and Netflix subscriptions then that is not my problem. i realise there are some who are in genuine poverty through no fault of their own, but for the majority in the Western world it’s just a case of going back to the old-school of not living beyond your means. It’s not a matter of living within your means it’s a matter of education. Young People are not taught any life skills anymore. Bring back domestic science. Also those on lower incomes don’t have the ability to borrow at reasonable rates to budget appropriately. I worked from the age of 16 until I decided to stop work 4 years ago at 58. 42 of those years in NHS. I can have a £110,000 mortgage for £135 a month. I can pay that back or have it making £1400 a month. By being able to borrow at low rates is a luxury only available to the better off. I remember a 17% mortgage rate, once you have had that it focuses your mind wonderfully. My council tax is 50% of my income that I can’t stop and manage had I not got Several hundred thousands elsewhere thanks to Mr. Osborne that would leave me £180 a month to pay all my bills. There are are thousands that only have a basic income and no benefits struggling to survive without any ability to save. I doubt many on this forum struggle. I agree about the feckless and lazy. As for food banks anyone who smokes should be excluded. I could feed 4 people for a week for the price of 40 fags. I have shown many of my friends how to retire 8 years before they get their state pension by better management of their resources. Let us teach life survival skills to the snowflakes. Budgeting is a difficult skill to learn. Ask the chancellor. So until JC gets in and gives us all everything for free then we have to try and learn the hard way.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Oct 17, 2018 0:15:08 GMT
The ironic thing now is that my company pension, another 2 years SP if they don't move it again, is way less than median salary (27300 according to ONS 2017 figures) but above the 60% slot by quite a way too. My outgoings are way less than most people anyway as I don't pay anyone to house me anymore and that is one of the biggest things in my favour I feel. My biggest outlay these days is council tax but hey if you live in rural Wiltshire and have a half decent property what can one expect... Try living in Scotland we have had at least a couple of revaluations since the last one in England
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Oct 17, 2018 9:00:01 GMT
if if people don’t have the willpower to not live beyond their means and instead squander their earnings on booze, fags and Netflix subscriptions then that is not my problem. i realise there are some who are in genuine poverty through no fault of their own, but for the majority in the Western world it’s just a case of going back to the old-school of not living beyond your means. There are are thousands that only have a basic income and no benefits struggling to survive without any ability to save. How does that happen? I thought those on basic income (except for very young adults perhaps) were supposed to get benefits.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Oct 17, 2018 9:57:07 GMT
There are are thousands that only have a basic income and no benefits struggling to survive without any ability to save. How does that happen? I thought those on basic income (except for very young adults perhaps) were supposed to get benefits. I gave up work a few years ago after 44 employed . I have a small annuity <£5000 PA. I checked just out of interest. As this was more than JSA and I was single and had no children and a mortgage I would get nothing as I had savings. A young friend with terminal disease would get very little other than for her disability. Under 25 and you are screwed. Anyone with children should not be struggling they get child allowance (I could show how this amount alone can feed 4) plus they get working tax credit. Unless they use the money for non-essentials, with prudent shopping they should be able to cope. There should be compulsory budget and living classes for all requesting benefits or maternity care and in final year at school. I would imagine those that are struggling don’t want to be and constructive help would be of more benefit in the long run to everybody taxpayers included those who make the effort to seek employment genuinely or are in poorly paid employment deserve support . Businesses that use the benefit system to stay in business by paying low wages should not be in business basic wages should be increased or as we may get in Scotland and minimum basic income for all.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Oct 17, 2018 10:05:25 GMT
How does that happen? I thought those on basic income (except for very young adults perhaps) were supposed to get benefits. Businesses that use the benefit system to stay in business by paying low wages should not be in business basic wages should be increased or as we may get in Scotland and minimum basic income for all. One problem is that governments never ask themselves what will be the effects of benefits, e.g. if the government effectively tops up wages, of course businesses will have less need to give pay rises. Imo businesses increase wages only when they have to in order to attract staff, not because some see it as the 'right thing to do'. Similarly with benefits in England that have a 16 hour/week criteria, influencing people to restrict their work to 16 hrs/week.
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Post by mattygroves on Oct 17, 2018 14:51:03 GMT
Getting back to the initial question - I also see P2P as a young sector and enjoy it but have less than 10% in it. I've been in P2P since 2007 (although only Zopa until the last 2 years) and have achieved a XIRR of 5% but that will be less when my property loan defaults eventually unroll. I've been withdrawing the income for the last 2 years but before that was reinvesting the interest earned.
I've managed a XIRR of 6.7% in a diversified S&S ISA (which includes bond funds) over the last 29 years (although I started small with £50 a month for the first 10 years in a time when cheap trackers weren't around). I have been in the income drawdown phase for 3 years now but can afford to live on a 3% return so should be able to get through even a crash without reducing my capital too much.
As P2P develops I may reallocate some of my investment in corporate bond funds but at the moment the guaranteed liquidity of equity markets tips me in favour of more traditional investments. I also like the fact that I can be a hands off investor and only rebalance my portfolio once a year unless forced to do so by takeovers.
I suspect in the short term I could beat my S&S return in P2P investments but it would take a significant amount of my time - which I'd rather spend in other ways.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Oct 17, 2018 15:40:14 GMT
Businesses that use the benefit system to stay in business by paying low wages should not be in business basic wages should be increased or as we may get in Scotland and minimum basic income for all. One problem is that governments never ask themselves what will be the effects of benefits, e.g. if the government effectively tops up wages, of course businesses will have less need to give pay rises. ... Similarly with benefits in England that have a 16 hour/week criteria, influencing people to restrict their work to 16 hrs/week.
At one time I was in contact with someone who understood the huge scale of numbers of people having an official 16 hour week in order to claim benefits, then organising cash in hand for the remainder of the week. No one is reported, ie individuals and small employers don't report each other for doing so because everyone bears resentment to the government or authorities, eg a sense of abandonment of inner city areas, diabolical wages, experience of social inequality and lack of routes out of bad backgrounds, bonding in social groups, political beliefs. It sounded to me that this practice was the norm, than not.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 17, 2018 16:10:34 GMT
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Oct 17, 2018 17:05:17 GMT
Businesses that use the benefit system to stay in business by paying low wages should not be in business basic wages should be increased or as we may get in Scotland and minimum basic income for all. One problem is that governments never ask themselves what will be the effects of benefits, e.g. if the government effectively tops up wages, of course businesses will have less need to give pay rises. Imo businesses increase wages only when they have to in order to attract staff, not because some see it as the 'right thing to do'. Similarly with benefits in England that have a 16 hour/week criteria, influencing people to restrict their work to 16 hrs/week.
There is a current pilot in Scotland that has been running a while. I think the indications are that it may be feasable. As with Free Prescriptions Free Education Free Travel over 60 Free personal care
All these things are possible because the population is a tenth of the UK as a whole and cannot be scaled up.
There are massive savings in administration of budget
No requirement for staff to administer benefits
no JSA anyone made redundant of course would get universal income. Tax would need to increase but you start from a base that allows enough income to pay basic needs.
For a Small country it can work and would give everyone a chance to improve without being trapped in a poverty cycle.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Oct 17, 2018 17:36:59 GMT
If the profile of taxpayers vs benefit recipients are the same, I don't see why population size would be a factor in the viability of a UBI scheme. The larger population could simply be viewed as N copies of the smaller population.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 17, 2018 17:43:09 GMT
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 17, 2018 17:54:15 GMT
Isn't JSA, or whatever its called these days, an automatic right for the 1st 6 months or until you get a another job if you have paid NI in the last 2 years.
You get NI contributions for those 6 months too as long as you pass JSA rules.
I'm sure it worked similarly for my Brother in law recently in Scotland. Here in the UK that was definitely the case for me and It was not means tested either for the 1st 6 months. Perhaps the recent UC changes have stopped that one but it worked for me in 2007 in England. I nearly got a job before my 6 months ran out but became disillusioned with my potential new employers attitude to my existing commitments do I turned it down in the end.
As I had no real need of a job at the end of it all and having taken a very favourable kings shilling at the time, I decided to just simply retire after that and have been ever since.
edit: I was made redundant though perhaps that changes things slightly.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Oct 17, 2018 20:24:58 GMT
What were we talking about again?
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