shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 5, 2018 10:25:16 GMT
....one-sided updates from AC that might as well have been written by the Borrower.
... Thus the desirability of drawing other investors' attention to this forum
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Nov 5, 2018 10:58:43 GMT
....one-sided updates from AC that might as well have been written by the Borrower.
... Thus the desirability of drawing other investors' attention to this forum But it was stuff within AC's website that lead me to that view, not this forum. Though I've had a couple of Questions removed from AC, generally I've been able to make most of the points I wished to.
Whilst I'd have no problem with AC providing a link to this forum if they chose (their site, their rules and I'm OK with that), in their place I wouldn't agree to it - why link to a site where people are often less than polite about AC?
If AC did provide a link to this forum, I could see comments here might pose a problem, e.g. if somebody untruthfully posted "AC verbally promised me the PF will always make up any losses". If somebody then invested with AC based on that (false) comment and lost money due to the PF not always making up losses, they could claim AC had mislead them via a site they provided a link to.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 5, 2018 18:11:57 GMT
Oh well, I can see that the rest of the world is wrong, yet again
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Post by investor01010101 on Nov 6, 2018 21:21:01 GMT
But you do allow mention of this forum when it suits you.
Like you say the q&a is not a discussion forum, or for lender to broadcast their opinions to others. That's what p2pif is for. AC have recognised the need, but when the need is at its greatest you are obstructing lenders from finding this valuable resource
OK then, AC having commendably set up this forum, how about putting a mention of this and or the competing forums into any vote communication?
Because we don't endorse this forum or officially support it. We've looked at this numerous times internally, we've looked at putting our own forum on site, we've looked at promoting this forum, we've looked at officially supporting this forum, and there's even a current on going discussion around whether we do set aside resource to better support this forum. I'm personally a huge believer in transparency, which is hopefully apparent from the level of detail I've given on this forum around how our technology works, and this is true to varying degrees of all the other board members. However the negatives of doing so have always outweighed the positives. We're a regulated business and that complicates many things on top of the myriad of usual issues of discussion forums, both obvious and more subtle. We were instrumental in setting up this forum in the first place and I'm still allowed to post here in a personal capacity alongside Stuart, but that's as far as we can go for now. "Regulated" by who exactly? My questions are always being removed even though questioning AC as to why they don't meet their stated deadlines for reporting is in my opinion a perfectly valid question. I think you have forgotten where the money comes from for these loans, you'd do well to remember that we hold all the risks here not AC.
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Post by investor01010101 on Nov 6, 2018 21:22:58 GMT
Thus the desirability of drawing other investors' attention to this forum But it was stuff within AC's website that lead me to that view, not this forum. Though I've had a couple of Questions removed from AC, generally I've been able to make most of the points I wished to.
Whilst I'd have no problem with AC providing a link to this forum if they chose (their site, their rules and I'm OK with that), in their place I wouldn't agree to it - why link to a site where people are often less than polite about AC?
If AC did provide a link to this forum, I could see comments here might pose a problem, e.g. if somebody untruthfully posted "AC verbally promised me the PF will always make up any losses". If somebody then invested with AC based on that (false) comment and lost money due to the PF not always making up losses, they could claim AC had mislead them via a site they provided a link to.
Ah the legendary PF fund........if only!!
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Post by chris on Nov 7, 2018 8:44:39 GMT
"Regulated" by who exactly? My questions are always being removed even though questioning AC as to why they don't meet their stated deadlines for reporting is in my opinion a perfectly valid question. I think you have forgotten where the money comes from for these loans, you'd do well to remember that we hold all the risks here not AC. We're "regulated" by the FCA - something hopefully all posters are aware of. This covers everything we publish, whether it's on our website or third party sites such as here. I've had a long standing commitment on this forum to review any Q&A questions that you feel have been unfairly deleted. If you can post an example of a question that you think is within the rules that we've deleted then I can check internally whether that was the actual question posted and the reasons why it was deleted.
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Nov 7, 2018 13:00:28 GMT
chris - Your commitment is appreciated
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 7, 2018 13:14:58 GMT
But it was stuff within AC's website that lead me to that view, not this forum. ..
Fine, but an awful lot of turkeys voted for Christmas last time out (accepting an interest holiday in return for .... waffle). My hypothesis is that seeing other people resisting AC's steers will encourage lenders to vote for recovery next time out (assuming the next offer is a bad one)
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Nov 7, 2018 13:45:03 GMT
But it was stuff within AC's website that lead me to that view, not this forum. ..
Fine, but an awful lot of turkeys voted for Christmas last time out (accepting an interest holiday in return for .... waffle). My hypothesis is that seeing other people resisting AC's steers will encourage lenders to vote for recovery next time out (assuming the next offer is a bad one) Having seen a number of comments on this website today that I don't believe have any basis in fact, I don't see how other peoples' allegations would help make for a more informed vote.
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 7, 2018 14:01:39 GMT
I'm new to Assetz, but not to this sort of debate, so I will stick to principles and past experience - having yet to look seriously at a vote. My cash is moving from FC, and I do remember when FC bought and closed the old indy - under duress - in part because it had started to discuss Assetz as well as FC. Assetz did not help to start this forum, it created it fully for many platforms and then handed it over to the present regime as truly independent. An unadulterated good deed. Since then the FC lending bank has closed its own forum and operates lending on the basis of no choice for lenders (apart from conservative or balanced), take it or leave it, and don't bother asking any questions or making any complaints. A vote by lenders on what to do about a loan? Incomprehensible! The options, the amount of control, the transparency and the engagement on Assetz seem excellent.
Perhaps because there is such good support of lenders by Asstez on this forum (compared with zero from FC), there is a wish to push it further. But the forum cannot be at the same time independent and also part of a regulated process which must be controlled by Assetz. If they have a process of voting on what is to be done on a loan, then they are answerable for the conduct of that process, which really means that they must try to contain and control the debate within their own facilities. Linking out to other sub-debates elsewhere will only lead to trouble through loss of control without loss of responsiblilty.
I do not know how good or bad the internal debates are yet - perhaps we should vote? If it is bad and there are many parallel debates here, then they should get the message and improve.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 7, 2018 14:06:04 GMT
Fine, but an awful lot of turkeys voted for Christmas last time out (accepting an interest holiday in return for .... waffle). My hypothesis is that seeing other people resisting AC's steers will encourage lenders to vote for recovery next time out (assuming the next offer is a bad one) Having seen a number of comments on this website today that I don't believe have any basis in fact, I don't see how other peoples' allegations would help make for a more informed vote. OK but you and I and many others have formed our view in discussion with others here. Blimey, I have learned an incredible amount here about property finance in general (etc etc). But we are only a fraction of AC lenders, and it just has to be the case that many of them are as ignorant as I was some years ago. Just the realisation that we can not do what the borrower proposes is a lesson for some.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 7, 2018 14:11:17 GMT
As part of this debate I just googled D**** M**** loan (without the *** obviously). I got nowhere with finding any of the forums, but there is a interesting hit (worzel gummidge)
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Nov 7, 2018 14:22:17 GMT
Having seen a number of comments on this website today that I don't believe have any basis in fact, I don't see how other peoples' allegations would help make for a more informed vote. OK but you and I and many others have formed our view in discussion with others here. Blimey, I have learned an incredible amount here about property finance in general (etc etc). But we are only a fraction of AC lenders, and it just has to be the case that many of them are as ignorant as I was some years ago. Just the realisation that we can not do what the borrower proposes is a lesson for some. Regardless of what I may have learnt on this forum, for me it comes down to fundamentals.
People have the right to
-post comments on forums like this, as long as they stay within forum (and libel) rules -request AC link to forums like this
but equally, AC have the right to choose whether to link to sites such as this. As I've said before, in their place I wouldn't, as there are too many downsides (posters slag off AC, promote competitors, make unfounded allegations, can post untruths etc etc).
Edit: in terms of loan 227, imo what may swing the vote is a few key Questions in AC's Q&A (once we see the terms of the vote), e.g. "Why does the Borrower think Lenders should wait years longer to get their money back, whilst accepting lower rates and less security, hence higher risk?"
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 7, 2018 18:23:38 GMT
But they have allowed references in the past, so it's not about "rules" it's about "when it suits them".
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Post by chris on Nov 7, 2018 19:03:04 GMT
But they have allowed references in the past, so it's not about "rules" it's about "when it suits them". We no longer officially post on the forum and our compliance advice has changed.
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