cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 12, 2018 9:27:43 GMT
Little EU story that made me smile, about Macron's reaction to the recent riots - chuck money at people
The new measures will leave France with a bigger budget deficit than Italy’s on every key measure, putting Brussels in a delicate position as it prepares sanctions against the rebel Lega-Five Star coalition in Rome.
“It is quite obvious that the budget deficit will be at least 3.5pc of GDP next year, and probably 4pc because the economy is heading for a light recession,” said Professor Jacques Sapir from the École des Hautes Études en Sciences Sociales in Paris. “Macron is now in the same boat as Salvini and di Maio in Italy. This is very embarrassing because he castigated them as populists over their budget.”
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 12, 2018 11:01:48 GMT
This Tory Christmas Panto is rubbish. And they should never have embarked on that European tour as foreign johnnies don't understand our British Pantomime tradition and anyway nobody likes Theresa May's 'Librarian from the Haunted Library' character.
Good idea to have this vote and get Boris into costume as soon as possible. I'm sure he'll soon have those Europeans rolling in the aisles. Is he crashing out? No he isn't! Oh yes he is!
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 12, 2018 18:34:58 GMT
Looks like TM offered herself up on a plate to be served before the next general election.
NS (Wee Burney) Thinks this will lead to another Scottish Referendum. (Dream on)
If as some want "Peoples Vote" rather than the last "Panda's link as the remoaners think were to be offered we would never get agreement on the Question never mind the answer.
THERE IS NO CONSENSUS it is an impossible task even for JC Junior no matter his relationship to that other biblical plague fellow "Jehova"
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 12, 2018 19:08:52 GMT
Looks like TM offered herself up on a plate to be served before the next general election.
NS (Wee Burney) Thinks this will lead to another Scottish Referendum. (Dream on)
If as some want "Peoples Vote" rather than the last "Panda's link as the remoaners think were to be offered we would never get agreement on the Question never mind the answer.
THERE IS NO CONSENSUS it is an impossible task even for JC Junior no matter his relationship to that other biblical plague fellow "Jehova"
Every time I hear the term remoaner a little bit of my compromising spirit dies.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 13, 2018 8:31:18 GMT
It's a shame that May is so stubborn. Telegraph reporting "Theresa May heads to Brussels to seek Brexit deal concessions after winning no confidence vote". That's not going to happen.
Tory no-confidence MPs clearly figured "bin May and this deal is dead immediately". OK, didn't happen, but the deal is still dead, just going to take until May eventually calls a vote on it (21 Jan?). 100+ Tory MPs will vote against, as will most of Labour, SNP and DUP
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Post by charlata on Dec 13, 2018 9:25:57 GMT
It's a shame that May is so stubborn. Telegraph reporting "Theresa May heads to Brussels to seek Brexit deal concessions after winning no confidence vote". That's not going to happen.
Tory no-confidence MPs clearly figured "bin May and this deal is dead immediately". OK, didn't happen, but the deal is still dead, just going to take until May eventually calls a vote on it (21 Jan?). 100+ Tory MPs will vote against, as will most of Labour, SNP and DUP
Can't argue with any of that. Which means May will ask to extend or cancel article 50. Which the EU will agree to. And which Labour will have to back, as forcing an unmanaged exit of the EU in an attempt to force a general election wouldn't go down too well with Labour voters. Eurosceptics MP's are doing everything in their power to slow or stop Brexit. Ironic.
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 13, 2018 10:35:24 GMT
Which essentially boils down to time wasting for another 5 weeks. Another five weeks of uncertainty. I'm working with excise goods moving from UK - EU and back, and the advice from HMRC about what might happen was useless. "You might need to buy "some software" to interface with the CHIEF database". That is a 25 year old computer system and no wonder it needs some special software to interface with it. Where do I get this software from? Needless to say, we are paralysed when it comes to making decisions and I'm sure a lot of firms are in the same position and I can understand why large companies are moving resources to the EU. The actions being taken to keep the Conservative party together is tearing us apart.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 13, 2018 11:17:20 GMT
The actions being taken to keep the Conservative party together is tearing us apart. Do you honestly expect any political party to put the interests of the country ahead of themselves? Only reason Labour look so united (yeah, right) is because they're trying to sit there quietly watching the Tories fight each other. Brexit never was a Tory-only problem.
In May's position, I'd be tempted to call an election, not canvas, let Labour win and watch them implode.
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yangmills
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Post by yangmills on Dec 14, 2018 14:07:07 GMT
I think the key issue that Brexit has raised (and which will persist whatever the final outcome) is that the mapping between the various political parties and the general populaces' viewpoints has been seen to be irretrievably broken. Political parties thought it was possible to approximate the views of the UK population by a one-dimensional approach; a simple left to right spectrum primarily depending on your economic views. It seems that Brexit has made it clear that there are host of other issues (multiculturalism, social liberalism, technology, deindustrialisation, globalisation and immigration etc) which don't fit that simple mapping.
I've thought for a while (somewhat influenced by works like the Shield of Achilles by Phillip Bobbit) that it was the case, in the early 21st century, that the 20th century "nation-state" was clearly obsolete and not fit for purpose (in the same way the 19th century "state-nation" became obsolete in the 20th century and evolved into the nation-state). It is therefore not surprising that the political parties that represent this nation-state model are also obsolete and not fit for purpose.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 14, 2018 14:56:05 GMT
I've thought for a while ... that it was the case, in the early 21st century, that the 20th century "nation-state" was clearly obsolete and not fit for purpose What's going to replace it?
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Dec 14, 2018 15:05:39 GMT
I note that Yougov's latest polling (see Peter Kellner's letter in the Times), has:
Remain/May's Deal - 62/38 Remain/No Deal - 57/43 Remain/May's Deal/No Deal - 54/18/28
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 14, 2018 15:10:10 GMT
I note that Yougov's latest polling (see Peter Kellner's letter in the Times), has: Remain/May's Deal - 62/38 Remain/No Deal - 57/43 Remain/May's Deal/No Deal - 54/18/28 As discussed on BBC1's 'This Week' TV programme last night, how would a second referendum come about? -electoral suicide for Tories to suggest it -Labour want a general election which, if they won, would give them no reason to call a second referendum
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Dec 14, 2018 15:14:03 GMT
I note that Yougov's latest polling (see Peter Kellner's letter in the Times), has: Remain/May's Deal - 62/38 Remain/No Deal - 57/43 Remain/May's Deal/No Deal - 54/18/28 As discussed on BBC1's 'This Week' TV programme last night, how would a second referendum come about? -electoral suicide for Tories to suggest it -Labour want a general election which, if they won, would give them no reason to call a second referendum
Two plausible scenarios:
- May can't get her deal through the HoC and pivots to a referendum to get a mandate for her deal. - It becomes clear Labour can't get a general election
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 14, 2018 15:23:18 GMT
As discussed on BBC1's 'This Week' TV programme last night, how would a second referendum come about? -electoral suicide for Tories to suggest it -Labour want a general election which, if they won, would give them no reason to call a second referendum
Two plausible scenarios:
- May can't get her deal through the HoC and pivots to a referendum to get a mandate for her deal. - It becomes clear Labour can't get a general election
Well, May can't and won't her deal through, so that leaves her stumped.
Odd that Labour don't support May's deal -they want to remain more than the Tories -their Brexit position is ridiculous (wanting to negotiate on different grounds with the EU, which says negotiation is over, plus the only thing that matches their 6-point Brexit is staying in the EU)
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Post by charlata on Dec 14, 2018 15:42:46 GMT
Odd that Labour don't support May's deal -they want to remain more than the Tories -their Brexit position is ridiculous (wanting to negotiate on different grounds with the EU, which says negotiation is over, plus the only thing that matches their 6-point Brexit is staying in the EU)
Labour's 6-point Brexit is based on the deal David Davis said he would get. I agree that it is ridiculous.
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