Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Dec 11, 2018 16:22:36 GMT
It's a very funny definition of democracy whereby the current electorate can't remain because a previous electorate wanted to leave. How long do we have to wait? “I am absolutely clear a referendum is a referendum, it’s a once in a generation, once in a lifetime opportunity and the result determines the outcome ... You can’t have neverendums, you have referendums.” - David Cameron May 2016
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Dec 11, 2018 16:59:42 GMT
It's a very funny definition of democracy whereby the current electorate can't remain because a previous electorate wanted to leave. How long do we have to wait? “I am absolutely clear a referendum is a referendum, it’s a once in a generation, once in a lifetime opportunity and the result determines the outcome ... You can’t have neverendums, you have referendums.” - David Cameron May 2016 Yes, but has that result determined this outcome? I think the result people who voted leave were hoping for was one that would be "the easiest in human history" (Liam Fox, July 2017), as after all "The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want" (Michael Gove, April 2016). Further to what IFISAcava said above, what should have happened is consensus building directly after (or ideally, before) the vote. TM basically locked herself away and came up with her own version of the truth, which no-one else happens to share. Leave voters have been screwed over - before the vote because they were lied to, but especially after because of the way it was managed. With where we are now though, a referendum is the only real way. Remain will win it. Not because everyone has changed their minds, they mostly haven't. I just don't think there is a single Leave option that anyone in any numbers will actually want to do. If consensus around a Leave deal could be formed, I think it would still be the right thing to do. Doesn't look like it will though. Re: No Deal, I just have zero time for this. Maybe it could be dismissed as 'project fear' before, but there are now reams of Government documents laying out in detail what exactly would happen in every area of the economy, and how ill-prepared we are. How anyone could stand up and say 'that's a way forward' staggers me. It would be insanity, and thankfully Parliament agrees. Edit: I think we all know we're whistling in to the wind talking to people who've long since made up their mind - therapeutic though!
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Dec 11, 2018 21:01:25 GMT
Lets have a quick 2nd referendrum : May Deal .No Deal . Remain. Anyone?
Me : No Deal
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Dec 11, 2018 21:09:49 GMT
Lets have a quick 2nd referendrum : May Deal .No Deal . Remain. Anyone?
Me : No Deal Procedural motion - propose the Right Honourable member travolta convenes a Proboards Poll and rescinds his freeform reply text proposal.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 11, 2018 21:33:50 GMT
Lets have a quick 2nd referendrum : May Deal .No Deal . Remain. Anyone?
Me : No Deal Procedural motion - propose the Right Honourable member travolta convenes a Proboards Poll and rescinds his freeform reply text proposal. In light of fast moving events it would seem that procedure now dictates we have a secret vote to establish travolta still has the confidence of the forum to proceed with this referendum.
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Post by df on Dec 11, 2018 21:38:22 GMT
Lets have a quick 2nd referendrum : May Deal .No Deal . Remain. Anyone?
Me : No Deal It's a mess, big mess, and David owes us an apology for creating it. I don't think any outcome will be good, we'll have to face consequences for David's (and his team) irresponsible actions. Ideally people will get a message and won't vote for this lot again, but that's highly unlikely because mainstream media doesn't like reminding of the past, even very recent past. I hate to say this, but unfortunately propaganda is a very powerful weapon.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 12, 2018 7:23:21 GMT
Lets have a quick 2nd referendrum : May Deal .No Deal . Remain. Anyone?
Me : No Deal Shouldn't have two Leave options (splitting the leave vote) to one Remain
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 12, 2018 8:11:20 GMT
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Dec 12, 2018 8:39:40 GMT
Personally, I think this is a disgrace, and completely undemocratic. It was the will of the Conservative party that May be leader, so how can they let 48 force a rerun? They should just accept she won and get over it.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 12, 2018 8:54:15 GMT
Lets have a quick 2nd referendrum : May Deal .No Deal . Remain. Anyone?
Me : No Deal Shouldn't have two Leave options (splitting the leave vote) to one Remain Well if eliminating the least popular option and going to the next round is good enough for the Tory leadership vote, it's good enough for the Brexit vote. In which case the polls show May's deal goes out first and no deal second leaving remain the most popular option.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Dec 12, 2018 8:59:32 GMT
whatever one's political persuasion (on party or EU membership lines) the fact that our former great negotiators david davis and dominic raab are jockeying for role of PM should be cause for eye-watering laughter. gold and silver medals for professional incompetency and generalized sophomania, perhaps
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 12, 2018 9:01:47 GMT
whatever one's political persuasion (on party or EU membership lines) the fact that our former great negotiators david davis and dominic raab are jockeying for role of PM should be cause for eye-watering laughter. gold and silver medals for professional incompetency and generalized sophomania, perhaps "The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool"
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Post by charlata on Dec 12, 2018 9:03:06 GMT
Personally, I think this is a disgrace, and completely undemocratic. It was the will of the Conservative party that May be leader, so how can they let 48 force a rerun? They should just accept she won and get over it. They can't. They can trigger a no confidence vote, which she will win comfortably. This is a final act of desperation by the swivel-eyed wing.
On the 23/06/2016 the Brexit fish was pulled from the water, and placed on the beach. It's spent 2 and half years vainly trying to breath. We're now witnessing it's final death throes.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Dec 12, 2018 9:06:15 GMT
Personally, I think this is a disgrace, and completely undemocratic. It was the will of the Conservative party that May be leader, so how can they let 48 force a rerun? They should just accept she won and get over it. They can't. They can trigger a no confidence vote, which she will win comfortably. This is a final act of desperation by the swivel-eyed wing.
On the 23/06/2016 the Brexit fish was pulled from the water, and placed on the beach. It's spent 2 and half years vainly trying to breath. We're now witnessing it's final death throes.
I notice the line today appears to be that if they vote against her they will have to extend/revoke A50.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 12, 2018 9:08:30 GMT
Personally, I think this is a disgrace, and completely undemocratic. It was the will of the Conservative party that May be leader, so how can they let 48 force a rerun? They should just accept she won and get over it. They can't. They can trigger a no confidence vote, which she will win comfortably. This is a final act of desperation by the swivel-eyed wing.
On the 23/06/2016 the Brexit fish was pulled from the water, and placed on the beach. It's spent 2 and half years vainly trying to breath. We're now witnessing it's final death throes.
I'm not so sure, and even if it does die, the stench left behind will last for a very long time
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