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Post by captainconfident on Dec 19, 2018 12:34:22 GMT
What is also laughable and a waste of our money is to begin "No Deal Planning" literally days before the date at which it might have to come into effect. "Managed No Deal", it sounds so tender and lovely, but what a deceitful phrase.
Over here in the real world, our No Deal Planning is to shut down in the case of 'no deal' and just wait until order is restored. The only "In the event of no deal..." advice we received from HMG was that in the event of no deal impacting our specific area of work, we would need to engage the services of a specialist Customs and Excise company. We are a specialist Customs and Excise company.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 19, 2018 12:45:40 GMT
This is the bit I don't understand - I am not sure what form of democracy takes an option off the table permanently because a previous electorate voted for/against it. There are countless examples of mature democracies that have rerun the same referendum, which in any case is not quite the suggestion here now that there is a deal in black and white to be considered. Anything other than Binary in or out will be bias as all wishing to remain will vote to remain. The rest would always be split therefore remain wins. Hence the feverish attempt to get another referendum. Nobody who voted to leave wants another as it is fixed from the start. If you disagree give me an example where all those that voted to stay would loose on non binary referendum which only splits leave vote. Also Norway 🇳🇴 Said it would veto any such deal proposed as it was better than they have. two things: 1) as I said, a preference voting system doesn't split the leave vote, it means the most favoured leave options goes head to head in a binary vote against remain 2) If no leave option has a majority support of the electorate, that does also tell you something about the wisdom of pursing any given leave option
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 19, 2018 13:14:59 GMT
Just have in or out and leave the rest to parliament..
We leave 99.999999% of governing the country to elected representatives both local and national that is the way a democrat society works. If you are not happy remove that representative..
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 19, 2018 13:25:25 GMT
Just have in or out and leave the rest to parliament.. We leave 99.999999% of governing the country to elected representatives both local and national that is the way a democrat society works. If you are not happy remove that representative.. Problems with that approach are i) MPs are not representative of the views of the population, ii) it's very hard to get a new political party going in the UK (really needs true proportional representation imo). When this divergence occurs, it often ends badly.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Dec 19, 2018 14:59:55 GMT
Just have in or out and leave the rest to parliament.. We leave 99.999999% of governing the country to elected representatives both local and national that is the way a democrat society works. If you are not happy remove that representative.. Problems with that approach are i) MPs are not representative of the views of the population, ii) it's very hard to get a new political party going in the UK (really needs true proportional representation imo). When this divergence occurs, it often ends badly. If only there had been an opportunity to change the voting system. You wouldn't be suggesting that we should consider it again, would you?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 19, 2018 16:31:44 GMT
Problems with that approach are i) MPs are not representative of the views of the population, ii) it's very hard to get a new political party going in the UK (really needs true proportional representation imo). When this divergence occurs, it often ends badly. If only there had been an opportunity to change the voting system. You wouldn't be suggesting that we should consider it again, would you? After an appropriate period, say 10 years
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Post by dan1 on Dec 19, 2018 20:00:17 GMT
All this talk of no deal reminds me of Y2K with similar talk of Armageddon. Let's hope the fallout, or lack of, is similar but I fear that I've drifted off in to the realms of fantasy again
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Dec 19, 2018 20:32:15 GMT
All this talk of no deal reminds me of Y2K with similar talk of Armageddon. Let's hope the fallout, or lack of, is similar but I fear that I've drifted off in to the realms of fantasy again As I recall, Y2K was prevented from causing major problems due to large numbers of people spending a lot of time working hard on preventing it. Meanwhile, we have three months left until disaster and our MPs are about to take three weeks off.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Dec 19, 2018 20:50:55 GMT
All this talk of no deal reminds me of Y2K with similar talk of Armageddon. Let's hope the fallout, or lack of, is similar but I fear that I've drifted off in to the realms of fantasy again As I recall, Y2K was prevented from causing major problems due to large numbers of people spending a lot of time working hard on preventing it. Meanwhile, we have three months left until disaster and our MPs are about to take three weeks off. For the sake of accuracy ... its 2 weeks, back on 7th. W/c 23rd, w/c 30th. According to press reports (accuracy not guaranteed) civil servants will be carrying on with preparations.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 19, 2018 20:57:11 GMT
The only suggestion that might work however fancy full is we take MPs and replace them with 650 random adults from all walks of life and stick them in the commons to sort things out.
No party politics just regular folk having a good argi bargi until something is thrashed out and then voted on using PR. This could be used for all major issues the put MPs back for day to day business.
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 19, 2018 21:01:38 GMT
I would humbly suggest that everyone interested in what the past teaches us and the future holds with regard to Brexit reads or listens to this. This is someone talking on the subject, not advocating one particular option over another. It concentrates the mind on the issues which have to be understood at this point in time. news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/Good luck - it's quite long.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 19, 2018 21:29:08 GMT
The only suggestion that might work however fancy full is we take MPs and replace them with 650 random adults from all walks of life and stick them in the commons to sort things out. No party politics just regular folk having a good argi bargi until something is thrashed out and then voted on using PR. This could be used for all major issues the put MPs back for day to day business. There is maybe half a dozen of you contributing your thoughts on this thread, I have yet to see anybody change their mind or agree with anybody else. So yes your plan should work just great. (silly God)
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Dec 19, 2018 21:30:31 GMT
I would humbly suggest that everyone interested in what the past teaches us and the future holds with regard to Brexit reads or listens to this. This is someone talking on the subject, not advocating one particular option over another. It concentrates the mind on the issues which have to be understood at this point in time. news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/Good luck - it's quite long. Well , he would say that wouldn't he ? Considering his provenance and the pies within which his fingers dwelt. But his bus has passed and the future is no longer in his remit. Bleak or otherwise ,we can leave these old farts grumbling into their gin and crack on . I wouldn't be surprised if Spain and France follow suite.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 22, 2018 9:23:52 GMT
Much as remainers and those on the left like to portray Brexit as a Tory only idea, it isn't and even Corbyn can see the danger of ignoring the electorate.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 22, 2018 10:28:39 GMT
Sound like more politicians bull****
If Labour were in power they would go to Brussels and negotiate a better deal. Yeh, I bet they would.
I thought that Labour's position was that if they can't get an immediate general election, then they rule nothing out. What a great policy that is.
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