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Post by captainconfident on Jan 17, 2019 12:13:49 GMT
Politics seems devoid of inspirational characters at the moment. Having said that, I was watching a BBC2 programme last night about Hugo Chavez - huge personality and look how that turned out.
Couldn't agree more. Watched 'Peston' yesterday for the first time, and saw Chief Minister to the Treasury Liz Truss completely out of her depth. Couldn't comment on no deal or referendum because the PM could ask just the EU to delete the backstop and then re-present her plan to parliament, and it would pass. Other panel member MPs had their heads in their hands.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 17, 2019 15:09:01 GMT
They want the people to get involved. The only way to ensure maximum participation is for the MPs on the two front benches to have a strictly dance off with the winners having a bake off with EU Brexit negotiating team. Winner gets to iplement their plan.
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Post by captainconfident on Jan 18, 2019 19:03:20 GMT
An excellent analysis of the current state of play here:- chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/Whether you want to stay in or leave, this will at least help you to see the current avenues to your desired outcome by 29th March. I'm off to stockpile food and medicine.
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Post by captainconfident on Jan 18, 2019 19:28:14 GMT
I'm off to stockpile food and medicine. Actually, I'm not. My passport just came through and I now have Belgian nationality.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 18, 2019 19:43:43 GMT
An excellent analysis of the current state of play here:- chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/Whether you want to stay in or leave, this will at least help you to see the current avenues to your desired outcome by 29th March. I'm off to stockpile food and medicine. And more on the utter incompetence of both leaders here: www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/01/18/week-in-review-a-circular-firing-squad-of-stupidity "They are the most inadequate, self-interested, unimaginative, unprincipled, irresponsible party leaders in living history. There is no thesaurus in the world which could contain all the descriptions of their failures. In a moment which requires towering political figures, we're lumped with them: a prime minister with the intellectual status of a pebble and an opposition leader with the cerebral qualities of crumbled paper. It cannot possibly be any clearer that these two figures have failed the country and are incapable of living up to the historic moment they find themselves in."
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 18, 2019 22:20:43 GMT
The Labour centrists will split off and form a new centre-left party, maybe merge with the LibDems. Groundhog day?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 18, 2019 22:25:33 GMT
Too weird. Labour have been watching the debate on the EU for 2+ years and still can't say what their policy is!
Great one liner from a tory back bencher during the no confidence debate:
"as far as Brexit is concerned, the Labour front bench has more positions than the Kama Sutra"
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 18, 2019 23:16:17 GMT
Telegraph suggesting Hammond has told business leaders that MPs will stop a no-deal Brexit MP's agreed to let the people decide whether to leave the EU or not, and nearly 500 of them voted to trigger article 50. The fact that half of those 500 are now trying to stop us from leaving shows what a contemptable bunch they are.
There are lots of people saying take no deal off the table, but as a man on Sky news said, it isn't clear what legal mechanism could achieve this. The fall back position in the withdrawl agreement is that we leave on 29th March, regardless of whether a deal is agreed or not (that's what 229 Labout MP's voted for). If you want to rule outno deal then it appears you have 2 options:
- bring forward legislation to change the withdrawl agreement so that no deal is no longer the fall back position. However it looks like the only alternative fall back is to remain.
- revoke article 50 before we get to 29th (which would mean no second referendum, and the MP's that previously said the people could decide, would effectively decide for us that we are going to stay)
It isn't within the power of MP's to unilaterally decide to extend the article 50 date, so I can't see that approach getting very far.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 19, 2019 14:47:31 GMT
Telegraph suggesting Hammond has told business leaders that MPs will stop a no-deal Brexit MP's agreed to let the people decide whether to leave the EU or not, and nearly 500 of them voted to trigger article 50. The fact that half of those 500 are now trying to stop us from leaving shows what a contemptable bunch they are.
There are lots of people saying take no deal off the table, but as a man on Sky news said, it isn't clear what legal mechanism could achieve this. The fall back position in the withdrawl agreement is that we leave on 29th March, regardless of whether a deal is agreed or not (that's what 229 Labout MP's voted for). If you want to rule outno deal then it appears you have 2 options:
- bring forward legislation to change the withdrawl agreement so that no deal is no longer the fall back position. However it looks like the only alternative fall back is to remain.
- revoke article 50 before we get to 29th (which would mean no second referendum, and the MP's that previously said the people could decide, would effectively decide for us that we are going to stay)
It isn't within the power of MP's to unilaterally decide to extend the article 50 date, so I can't see that approach getting very far. I was watching the BBC's This Week programme on Thursday where they were discussing 'taking no-deal off the table'. Somebody said that in order for the country to leave without no-deal (WTO rules), they obviously had to leave with a deal, so people should be concentrating on finding a deal that would common majority support.
With the HoC having a majority in favour of Remain, I suspect the deal that would gain most support would be Remain, or a very soft Brexit (BRINO). Going to be fun at the next election whatever happens.
"Describing the withdrawal agreement as a “bad deal”, the chairman of the Hornchurch and Upminster Conservative Association, wrote:
"As Chairman to Chairman and as a committed Conservative supporter, voter and hard working activist over the last 44 years, I have to say with a heavy heart, that if Brexit is not delivered as per the vote of 17.4m people in the referendum I would find it extremely difficult to remain part of a party that is hell-bent on reversing the will of the British people.
I fear that if the party does not change direction, get behind Brexit and leave the EU as intended, the party I have dedicated my life to will be consigned to the history books as the party that denied democracy."
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 19, 2019 16:44:09 GMT
Somebody said that in order for the country to leave without no-deal (WTO rules), they obviously had to leave with a deal,
Or possibly not leave at all.
How can you have any respect for the 250 MP'S that voted for the withdrawl agreement (knowing no deal was the default position), but who now want to remain? I have least contenpt for TM, who may be incompetent, but appears committed to delivering the result of the referendum. I have most contempt for JC, who has spent the last 3 months complaining that labour haven't been consulted on Brexit, but won't meet with the PM to discuss their position.
As others have pointed out, JC is happy to meet with the IRA, Hamas and numerous other unsavoury characters without precondition, but not the Britiish prime minister.
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Post by captainconfident on Jan 19, 2019 18:49:49 GMT
As clearly explained on, chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/ , 'No Deal' cannot be 'taken off the table' as a precursor to talks, because No Deal is the default position of the United Kingdom unless another solution is found. Corbyn was invited to come along and discuss other solutions. The position he took shows a gross failure of intellect.
+Something will happen+ between now and 29th March in Parliament. Either a customs union agreement or a referendum plan. It's not clear how either of these will emerge as both main parties are lead by such dim bulbs. But it most likely will.
Along the way there will be a lot of shouting and fuming from the ERG group, but that's what they like doing. They have spent their lives opposing not proposing, which is why none of them wants to step forward to lead the party or country. And in the end, they will not split from the Conservative party because the only platform they have for shouting and fuming is inside a broad party that can win constituencies.
The problem with Brexit has always been that direct democracy has crashed head on into representative democracy, the principle by which we are governed. The remain majority in the commons are the people we voted into there to represent us. The people we voted for to represent our best interests are trying to implement a referendum result that they do not think is in our best interests.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 20, 2019 0:53:23 GMT
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 20, 2019 10:09:43 GMT
JRM stating very eloquently clear facts and propositions. JOB otoh sounds a bit clueless and angry and not of sufficient intelligence to hold such an interview (granted not many people would be). So it is quite painful to listen to
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Jan 20, 2019 13:24:01 GMT
I have never heard of James O'Brien, but what a boorish person he seems. I won't be listening to him again!
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 20, 2019 13:49:11 GMT
"Parliament is about to commit an act of self-harm against the nation. And parliament will face the electorate’s wrath for not working together to sort it out.
The UK is set to leave on 29 March. Any other outcome would undermine trust in the political system"
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