IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 22, 2019 18:08:08 GMT
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 22, 2019 18:11:00 GMT
This is interesting re the prospect of a hard border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. I'm not sure what to make of it. I've spent the last 18 months listening to gobby poiticians from the Irish republic telling us what kind of border we can have around our country.
I'm not certain that no deal is a good idea, but I would love to see Leo Varadkar and his cronies squirming with border issues under a no deal scenario
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 22, 2019 18:25:43 GMT
This is interesting re the prospect of a hard border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. I'm not sure what to make of it. I've spent the last 18 months listening to gobby poiticians from the Irish republic telling us what kind of border we can have around our country.
I'm not certain that no deal is a good idea, but I would love to see Leo Varadkar and his cronies squirming with border issues under a no deal scenario Disclaimer, I'm half-Irish . That aside.... hmmm, is it ok that the UK just washes its hands of agreements it's made in the past (and as part of the Brexit negotiations)? See here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_AgreementScroll down to the bit that says "In order to protect North-South co-operation and avoid controls on the Irish border, the UK agreed to protect the Agreement in all its parts and "in the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement."" I'm probably missing something, but, aside from the agreement to avoid the imposition of a hard border, I've never understood why the UK hasn't taken a stance like "ok, we won't impose a hard border, but if (the EU makes) Ireland chooses to then that's on them".
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 22, 2019 18:46:49 GMT
I'm probably missing something, but, aside from the agreement to avoid the imposition of a hard border, I've never understood why the UK hasn't taken a stance like "ok, we won't impose a hard border, but if (the EU makes) Ireland chooses to then that's on them". I think the problem is that however you arrange the border, you have to record what is crossing it in order to work out what tariffs are due. WTO rules dictate that you must apply the same tariff on the same product wherever it has come from. You can't let products enter from the EU via the Irish border tariff free, but charge 10% tariff for the same product coming into Felixstow from outside the EU.
It is suggested that if there was no deal the UK would just copy the EU tarrif rates in the short term, but they say that just monitoring movements across the border using CCTV cameras may incur the wrath of the locals (I wonder why they wouldn't want to be monitored crossing the border?)
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 22, 2019 19:05:11 GMT
(I wonder why they wouldn't want to be monitored crossing the border?) Well, for sure, one reason is all the smuggling of petrol, booze, cigarettes and god knows what else. But my sense is also that the communities, both north and south, are learning to live together peacefully, and legitimate cross border trade is an important part of that. The fear (aptly demonstrated in Londonderry a few days ago ) is that any backpeddling on this may give the extremists on whichever side an excuse to return to violence.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 23, 2019 11:58:41 GMT
I've spent the last 18 months listening to gobby poiticians from the Irish republic telling us what kind of border we can have around our country.
I'm not certain that no deal is a good idea, but I would love to see Leo Varadkar and his cronies squirming with border issues under a no deal scenario Disclaimer, I'm half-Irish . That aside.... hmmm, is it ok that the UK just washes its hands of agreements it's made in the past (and as part of the Brexit negotiations)? See here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_AgreementScroll down to the bit that says "In order to protect North-South co-operation and avoid controls on the Irish border, the UK agreed to protect the Agreement in all its parts and "in the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement."" I'm probably missing something, but, aside from the agreement to avoid the imposition of a hard border, I've never understood why the UK hasn't taken a stance like "ok, we won't impose a hard border, but if (the EU makes) Ireland chooses to then that's on them".Dont think you are missing anything here. That is exactly what the UK position would be (no border) and EU/ROI can then sort it out between themselves. EU can then either get in line or see ROI be next to leave ... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46961982
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 23, 2019 13:04:17 GMT
Disclaimer, I'm half-Irish . That aside.... hmmm, is it ok that the UK just washes its hands of agreements it's made in the past (and as part of the Brexit negotiations)? See here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_AgreementScroll down to the bit that says "In order to protect North-South co-operation and avoid controls on the Irish border, the UK agreed to protect the Agreement in all its parts and "in the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement."" I'm probably missing something, but, aside from the agreement to avoid the imposition of a hard border, I've never understood why the UK hasn't taken a stance like "ok, we won't impose a hard border, but if (the EU makes) Ireland chooses to then that's on them".Dont think you are missing anything here. That is exactly what the UK position would be (no border) and EU/ROI can then sort it out between themselves. EU can then either get in line or see ROI be next to leave ... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46961982 Actually you are missing some crucial facts: see my earlier link. “If the UK chooses not impose any tariffs on goods coming across the [Irish] border… that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this context) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero. That means it would have to give a zero tariff access to every single country in the WTO.”
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 23, 2019 14:16:30 GMT
And so how is the common travel area workable post brexit? Please stop believing all the Remoaning propaganda. The common travel area will be extended to a common trade area quicker than Diane Abbott can spell Jeremy Corbyn
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 23, 2019 17:27:27 GMT
And so how is the common travel area workable post brexit? Please stop believing all the Remoaning propaganda. The common travel area will be extended to a common trade area quicker than Diane Abbott can spell Jeremy Corbyn you lost me at "remoaning propaganda". Clearly we can't have a sensible discussion about this.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 23, 2019 18:08:14 GMT
Whatever are you suggesting michaelc ? That the 400 or so weasel MPs scheming against the electorate are taken away in the back of some police vans and replaced with honorable servants of the people? I'll contribute at least a few shillings ... Not quite so drastic - just, as a democratic backstop if you like, a mechanism to prevent them entering the chamber until the start of April. I do recognize that most would consider that an incredible measure for a country like ours, but the possible constitutional events that might take place are so serious they may necessitate it. Ahh, seems as though that power is within TM's remit anyway so hopefully no need to call in any tanks unless resistance is encountered. Brexit latest news: Jacob Rees-Mogg urges Theresa May to shut down Parliament if MPs try to thwart Brexit www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/23/brexit-latest-news-labour-highly-likely-back-plan-delay-eu-withdrawal/
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 23, 2019 18:48:12 GMT
That is exactly what the UK position would be (no border) and EU/ROI can then sort it out between themselves. Never understood this backstop malarkey, which appears to be the biggest obstacle to the current deal. It seems that the EU's choices are either:
- leave with a deal and no backstop
- leave without a deal and no backstop
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 23, 2019 21:57:06 GMT
That is exactly what the UK position would be (no border) and EU/ROI can then sort it out between themselves. Never understood this backstop malarkey, which appears to be the biggest obstacle to the current deal. It seems that the EU's choices are either:
- leave with a deal and no backstop
- leave without a deal and no backstop
No matter what happens there are oppertunities to make a profit
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 23, 2019 23:22:34 GMT
Never understood this backstop malarkey, which appears to be the biggest obstacle to the current deal. It seems that the EU's choices are either:
- leave with a deal and no backstop
- leave without a deal and no backstop
No matter what happens there are oppertunities to make a profit I do admire your honesty Mr God. I believe there are many others who are far more worried about what might happen in the short term to their sterling denominated investments than they are about the future of this nation(s) but unlike yourself, give all sorts of other phony reasons as to why the believe what they believe.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 24, 2019 1:08:27 GMT
No matter what happens there are oppertunities to make a profit I do admire your honesty Mr God. I believe there are many others who are far more worried about what might happen in the short term to their sterling denominated investments than they are about the future of this nation(s) but unlike yourself, give all sorts of other phony reasons as to why the believe what they believe. As I have said before ALL on here are the lucky ones. Just look at "can't pay we'll take it away" There are many who live from day to day and don't have the luxury of being able to moan at a poor return on their extra wealth. I worked hard for 42 years and was aware that saving if possible was prudent. I am aware every day of how lucky I am. There is nothing wrong with making money either by investing or by working each has its merits. Investing usually comes after years of work. A bit like voting Labour the older you get the more you realise it is not the prudent thing to do at the same time you realise investing can bring benefits
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 24, 2019 1:21:45 GMT
I do admire your honesty Mr God. I believe there are many others who are far more worried about what might happen in the short term to their sterling denominated investments than they are about the future of this nation(s) but unlike yourself, give all sorts of other phony reasons as to why the believe what they believe. As I have said before ALL on here are the lucky ones. Just look at "can't pay we'll take it away" There are many who live from day to day and don't have the luxury of being able to moan at a poor return on their extra wealth. I worked hard for 42 years and was aware that saving if possible was prudent. I am aware every day of how lucky I am. There is nothing wrong with making money either by investing or by working each has its merits. Investing usually comes after years of work. A bit like voting Labour the older you get the more you realise it is not the prudent thing to do at the same time you realise investing can bring benefits Yes, I largely agree with you. I wasn't in any way attempting sarcasm in my previous reply.
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