registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 29, 2019 22:57:23 GMT
snip The EU isn't going to back down, not one inch. i have a feeling you may be wrong.. Yes, I may be. Though given the possible future ramifications either way I am not sure I want to be. And I am not sure I feel too good about that . Ahh well, we'll see.
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Post by martin44 on Jan 29, 2019 22:58:10 GMT
feel free to expand.. It seems to be customary to have three options in play at any time, i was updating the equation. what 3 options do you see?
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jan 29, 2019 23:09:55 GMT
It seems to be customary to have three options in play at any time, i was updating the equation. what 3 options do you see? Well in this example that either registerme or you are right, or that neither of you are. I think the most likely end to the current deadlock, is Ireland making a gesture that allows the EU and UK to wriggle off the hook and get 'A deal'. Currently its a no win game for everybody.
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Post by martin44 on Jan 29, 2019 23:12:32 GMT
i have a feeling you may be wrong.. Yes, I may be. Though given the possible future ramifications either way I am not sure I want to be. And I am not sure I feel too good about that . Ahh well, we'll see. The future ramifications are a given........
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Post by martin44 on Jan 29, 2019 23:31:30 GMT
Being an advocate of T mays deal I can only hope.....
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 29, 2019 23:31:37 GMT
The future ramifications are a given........ Ahh, at last, we have found the Kwisatz Haderach .
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Jan 30, 2019 5:23:07 GMT
The amateurs who are/were "negotiating" were/are useless, every one of them. why? Because, there should have been a strong Team in a back room from Day One planning meticulously for a possible No Deal Brexit. You then go in to negotiate, reasonably I add, knowing your fall back position is secure. Your confidence exudes through your skin, your opponents smell it on you, and negotiations have a tendency to go your way. This is very basic stuff, we have had halfwit politicians playing at it. Which is exactly why we are where we are now.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 30, 2019 7:16:39 GMT
Because, there should have been a strong Team in a back room from Day One planning meticulously for a possible No Deal Brexit. You then go in to negotiate, reasonably I add, knowing your fall back position is secure. Your confidence exudes through your skin, your opponents smell it on you, and negotiations have a tendency to go your way. This is very basic stuff, we have had halfwit politicians playing at it. Which is exactly why we are where we are now. I've never understood why we've had half wit politicians leading the negotiations anyway. Politicians set the goals (that is bad enough) and then professional negotiators do the wheeling and dealing.
Sending in half wits such as David Davies to lead the cutting edge of negotiiation (or TM in case you think this is a statement of "sides") is a nonsense.
Meanwhile the UK economy is suffering significant damage from a thousand cuts, business has lost long term trust in the ability of the uK political scene to provide certainty/stability; and the parties are operating on basis of what is needed to try and keep "big tent" parties together rather than what is best for the country.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 30, 2019 8:10:20 GMT
Because, there should have been a strong Team in a back room from Day One planning meticulously for a possible No Deal Brexit. You then go in to negotiate, reasonably I add, knowing your fall back position is secure. Your confidence exudes through your skin, your opponents smell it on you, and negotiations have a tendency to go your way.
This is very basic stuff, we have had halfwit politicians playing at it. Which is exactly why we are where we are now. This falls into the trap of thinking that any negotiation that can (a) wish away the fundamental clash between TM's red lines and the Good Friday Agreement or b) persuade the EU to separate the four freedoms and destroy the integrity of its own internal market. It also ignores the fact that this is an unequal negotiation in which the EU has the upper hand in terms of population, GDP, experience, time (once A50 was prematurely invoked) and the negative consequences of a no-deal. The problem isn't negotiation skills, the problem is Brexit itself.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 30, 2019 8:16:42 GMT
Because, there should have been a strong Team in a back room from Day One planning meticulously for a possible No Deal Brexit. You then go in to negotiate, reasonably I add, knowing your fall back position is secure. Your confidence exudes through your skin, your opponents smell it on you, and negotiations have a tendency to go your way. This is very basic stuff, we have had halfwit politicians playing at it. Which is exactly why we are where we are now. I've never understood why we've had half wit politicians leading the negotiations anyway. Politicians set the goals (that is bad enough) and then professional negotiators do the wheeling and dealing.
Sending in half wits such as David Davies to lead the cutting edge of negotiiation (or TM in case you think this is a statement of "sides") is a nonsense.
Meanwhile the UK economy is suffering significant damage from a thousand cuts, business has lost long term trust in the ability of the uK political scene to provide certainty/stability; and the parties are operating on basis of what is needed to try and keep "big tent" parties together rather than what is best for the country.
Exactly this - both parties have put their party before country, most egregiously TM. The country has been irreparably damaged economically and reputationally by this. Moreover, the talent pool in UK politics is so poor and we as a nation are at least in part to blame for making it a job that is now so unattractive to talented people.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 30, 2019 11:12:51 GMT
I'd be happy with any capable, sane centrists, that's if there are any. You can drop Corbyn and Bill Cash and their ilk down a very deep hole as far as I am concerned. We can blend it to the centre, sure: David Milliband (returns) for Business Caroline Lucas for Environment Heidi Allen for Transport Nick Clegg (returns) for Foreign Office Jo Swinson for Women & Equalities David Lammy for Housing Nicola Sturgeon for having Very Big Balls Corbyn can fight Rees-Mogg over who gets to manage/work the parliamentary allottment which shall be the only source of fruit and vegetables permitted inside HoC restaurants henceforth. That should focus their minds on collective responsibility for a change and starve the less committed MPs out. Lammy & Sturgeon - the idea of having 'sane centrists' ( registerme) clearly didn't last long. Also, with Lucas for Environment I doubt we'd need anyone for Transport, unless it was managing cycle allocation.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Jan 30, 2019 12:33:39 GMT
Because, there should have been a strong Team in a back room from Day One planning meticulously for a possible No Deal Brexit. You then go in to negotiate, reasonably I add, knowing your fall back position is secure. Your confidence exudes through your skin, your opponents smell it on you, and negotiations have a tendency to go your way.
This is very basic stuff, we have had halfwit politicians playing at it. Which is exactly why we are where we are now. This falls into the trap of thinking that any negotiation that can (a) wish away the fundamental clash between TM's red lines and the Good Friday Agreement or b) persuade the EU to separate the four freedoms and destroy the integrity of its own internal market. It also ignores the fact that this is an unequal negotiation in which the EU has the upper hand in terms of population, GDP, experience, time (once A50 was prematurely invoked) and the negative consequences of a no-deal. The problem isn't negotiation skills, the problem is Brexit itself. So, there should have been a strong Team in a back room from Day One planning meticulously for a possible No Deal Brexit?!
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 30, 2019 12:48:57 GMT
This falls into the trap of thinking that any negotiation that can (a) wish away the fundamental clash between TM's red lines and the Good Friday Agreement or b) persuade the EU to separate the four freedoms and destroy the integrity of its own internal market. It also ignores the fact that this is an unequal negotiation in which the EU has the upper hand in terms of population, GDP, experience, time (once A50 was prematurely invoked) and the negative consequences of a no-deal. The problem isn't negotiation skills, the problem is Brexit itself. So, there should have been a strong Team in a back room from Day One planning meticulously for a possible No Deal Brexit?! I see what you did there
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Post by captainconfident on Jan 30, 2019 15:39:29 GMT
"The best way of thinking about this is to imagine the converse situation, in which the EU at this late stage announced that despite what has been agreed in the negotiations only by, say, increasing the financial settlement and changing the backstop back to being Northern Ireland only will it be possible to secure sufficient support from the European Council and Parliament. The outrage of Brexiters can easily be guessed at, and the UK response would almost certainly be a flat refusal." Another great post in the chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/ today. Highlights the despicable behaviour of Mark Francois MP.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 30, 2019 16:09:29 GMT
There is zero chance of the EU changing their position re the backstop. Doing so would throw Ireland under a bus, which would a) utterly undermine the EU as a viable entity and b) wreck any future negotiating position the EU might care to take on... pretty much everything.
They don't want a hard Brexit, but if that's how the UK chooses to leave the EU then I suspect they'll shrug and say "oh well, that's unfortunate, but so be it". And no, the prospect of selling less cars (or whatever) to the UK won't shift their position.
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