cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 22, 2019 16:21:19 GMT
"A senior minister in the government told Sky News that plans are being drawn up to give MPs a choice between revoking Article 50, a second referendum, the prime minister's deal, her deal plus a customs union, the deal plus a customs union and single market access, a standard free-trade agreement, or a no-deal Brexit."
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 22, 2019 17:24:38 GMT
"A senior minister in the government told Sky News that plans are being drawn up to give MPs a choice between revoking Article 50, a second referendum, the prime minister's deal, her deal plus a customs union, the deal plus a customs union and single market access, a standard free-trade agreement, or a no-deal Brexit."
I think we all need to move on a bit. It's time to delete "The Deal" from that list, and then it looks a lot simpler. And delete Theresa's Prime ministership at the same time. All that has been a waste of time.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 22, 2019 17:39:00 GMT
"A senior minister in the government told Sky News that plans are being drawn up to give MPs a choice between revoking Article 50, a second referendum, the prime minister's deal, her deal plus a customs union, the deal plus a customs union and single market access, a standard free-trade agreement, or a no-deal Brexit."
I think we all need to move on a bit. It's time to delete "The Deal" from that list, and then it looks a lot simpler. And delete Theresa's Prime ministership at the same time. All that has been a waste of time. My guess is that a large number of MPs would go for revoking Article 50 or (the deal plus) a customs union and single market access. Problem with the later is EU will say "the customs union and single market membership". Understandable on the EU's part, but MPs won't then be able to sell it as Brexit.
I think the only change that has come over Remain MPs in the last couple of years is they've now given up the pretense of implementing Brexit, relying instead on the point you often make that they're in the HoC to do what they see as in the national interest (and pay no attention to referendum, manifesto etc.). I would have more respect for them if they'd said the day after the referendum "sorry guys, I'm never going to implement that".
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 22, 2019 17:55:44 GMT
"A senior minister in the government told Sky News that plans are being drawn up to give MPs a choice between revoking Article 50, a second referendum, the prime minister's deal, her deal plus a customs union, the deal plus a customs union and single market access, a standard free-trade agreement, or a no-deal Brexit."
I think we all need to move on a bit. It's time to delete "The Deal" from that list, and then it looks a lot simpler. And delete Theresa's Prime ministership at the same time. All that has been a waste of time. If that story is correct it's basically the government going "we don't have a clue". The only surprising thing about that is that they admit it.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 22, 2019 18:50:33 GMT
I think we all need to move on a bit. It's time to delete "The Deal" from that list, and then it looks a lot simpler. And delete Theresa's Prime ministership at the same time. All that has been a waste of time. My guess is that a large number of MPs would go for revoking Article 50 or (the deal plus) a customs union and single market access. Problem with the later is EU will say "the customs union and single market membership". Understandable on the EU's part, but MPs won't then be able to sell it as Brexit.
I think the only change that has come over Remain MPs in the last couple of years is they've now given up the pretense of implementing Brexit, relying instead on the point you often make that they're in the HoC to do what they see as in the national interest (and pay no attention to referendum, manifesto etc.). I would have more respect for them if they'd said the day after the referendum "sorry guys, I'm never going to implement that".
Well, to be fair, a few were always explicit about that. But they are mostly now in the Independent Group. A lot of the rest just follow the party line, and it is the party line that drifts over time. The Single Market is the best and deepest inter-country trade agreement anywhere in the world and the real disaster of the Brexit vote has been TM ruling out membership of it. The sole reason seems to be her interpretation that the 2016 referendum was about immigration. Britain will always import immigrants, and lo and behold, even though we haven't left the Single Market, EU migration is down and immigration from the rest of the world has sharply increased. It is a zero sum game. And yet through arrant stupidity or steaming prejudice, some people still think ditching the vast economic advantages of the Single Market is worth the damage because they don't like foreign people. They are idiots.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 22, 2019 19:43:47 GMT
I think a vote to repeal article 50 is a great move. It will smoke out the treacherous bastards who are intent on ignoring the will of the people.
I hope they are the first to get the old heave ho when we have the next GE.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 22, 2019 20:18:50 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 22, 2019 20:20:57 GMT
I think a vote to repeal article 50 is a great move. It will smoke out the treacherous bastards who are intent on ignoring the will of the people.
I hope they are the first to get the old heave ho when we have the next GE.
And many before. As I'm in a seat that mostly voted remain but with a Tory MP who has been very vocal about dismissing the importance of the 2016 referendum and wanting a another one. So I joined said party over 3 months ago and now will be one of just fifty who will be announcing shortly the first moves to have him removed which will happy quickly and he will not be able to stop. I am motivated entirely by my anger at those who rally against democracy (leave or remain is of lesser importance to me). I am shocked at how many put this issue as more important than democracy itself. In law MPs are broadly independent and vote in the HoC - "representative democracy" . In practice, most of them would NEVER have been elected if the party behind them had not selected them and most people vote along party not people lines. Most of them are far too big for their boots.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 22, 2019 20:52:31 GMT
I think a vote to repeal article 50 is a great move. It will smoke out the treacherous bastards who are intent on ignoring the will of the people.
I hope they are the first to get the old heave ho when we have the next GE.
And many before. As I'm in a seat that mostly voted remain but with a Tory MP who has been very vocal about dismissing the importance of the 2016 referendum and wanting a another one. So I joined said party over 3 months ago and now will be one of just fifty who will be announcing shortly the first moves to have him removed which will happy quickly and he will not be able to stop. I am motivated entirely by my anger at those who rally against democracy (leave or remain is of lesser importance to me). I am shocked at how many put this issue as more important than democracy itself. In law MPs are broadly independent and vote in the HoC - "representative democracy" . In practice, most of them would NEVER have been elected if the party behind them had not selected them and most people vote along party not people lines. Most of them are far too big for their boots. Absolutely too big for there boots and they think they are so important. How can the politicians that agreed to support brexit now vote to repeal article 50. How much do they (not) respect their electorate.
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Post by charlata on Mar 22, 2019 21:07:57 GMT
I am confused as to who all these ''remain MP's" are. Every one but the Tories and a small minortiy of Labour are more or less pro-remain. Agreed. However, all save half-a-dozen Tories have pushed to leave at every opportunity. Admittedly half want hard and half want soft, and until they can agree on one or the other, we'll get neither. So I guess their inability to agree makes them de facto remainers, but few of them have given any indication they actually want to remain. Quite the opposite.
Thus leaving me supposing that those of us of a strong eurosceptic bent are calling May's WA 'remaining'. It's out of the SM, so no more freedom of movement of labour, i.e. control of legal immigration from the EU; which is chunk of what people voted for. It may be kicking leaving the CU into the indefinite future, but that doesn't make it remain. Just because 'leave' doesn't turn out to be everything that some 'leave' voters would like it to be (WTO) doesn't make it 'remain'.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 22, 2019 22:24:47 GMT
I hope they are the first to get the old heave ho when we have the next GE.
Or better still, first against the wall come the day of the revolution
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Mar 23, 2019 3:23:55 GMT
I hope they are the first to get the old heave ho when we have the next GE.
Or better still, first against the wall come the day of the revolution Well it won’t be Labour MPs. If it is the wailing wall.
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aju
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Post by aju on Mar 23, 2019 9:18:45 GMT
I hope they are the first to get the old heave ho when we have the next GE.
Or better still, first against the wall come the day of the revolution "Power to the People" and "Freedom for Tooting" Quotes Wolfie Smith, c1977-1980
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 23, 2019 12:47:59 GMT
Thus leaving me supposing that those of us of a strong eurosceptic bent are calling May's WA 'remaining'. It's out of the SM, so no more freedom of movement of labour, i.e. control of legal immigration from the EU; which is chunk of what people voted for. It may be kicking leaving the CU into the indefinite future, but that doesn't make it remain. Just because 'leave' doesn't turn out to be everything that some 'leave' voters would like it to be (WTO) doesn't make it 'remain'.
The concern I have with the WA is by, as you put it "kicking leaving the CU into the indefinite future", we make it very difficult for the economy to rebalance to account for the other major bit (leaving the SM). Without the ability to set our own trade policy, it is inevitable that we would elect to rejoin the EU in due course. (Labour's in "a" customs union but with the ability to do independent trade deals is political sematics as in reality they are describing a free trade deal).
For myself, and many business people, freedom of movement is in itself not that big a deal. What must end though is the requirement that EU citizens get preferential treatment in the jobs market (and many would argue any ability to come to the UK without employment, or to stay if unemployed and in the UK for less than 5 years). Why should I be told by the home office that I can't employ a Chinese guy who speaks perfect English, has exactly the academic and work experience that I need and can learn from, because they believe an Italian I interviewed and rejected was an adequate fit for my needs (relatively poor English as a 3rd language, tangentially relevant degree, zero experience of the current best practise approaches that I wished to consider how to apply).
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 23, 2019 14:14:29 GMT
Because, MRC, there will never be a free movement treaty with China or if you think there should be looser rules for qualified people to come from outside the EU then you should lobby for that. But the rest of what you wrote is a straw man argument.
an Italian ..... (relatively poor English as a 3rd language, tangentially relevant degree, zero experience of the current best practise approaches that I wished to consider how to apply)
Surely there is someone from Britain who would be a better bet? Your post seems to suggest that you have to pick EU immigrants over the domestic workforce.
This and many would argue any ability to come to the UK without employment, or to stay if unemployed and in the UK for less than 5 years)
Is perfectly possible under current Single Market laws. The British governments have simply not implemented it and disingenuously implied the EU was at fault for jobless foreigners being here. The law is used freely here in Belgium but it's not 5 years, it's six months. Two years ago I helped a Dutch lady who was here trying to buy a farm with paperwork because she was threatened with deportation back to NL because she was in the country without a job.
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