boundah
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Post by boundah on Dec 7, 2018 10:52:27 GMT
It's not about one loan though is it. There are several loans where the company has consistently and continues to engage in 'can kicking' always of course promising jam tomorrow, or is it the 'free beer tomorrow' pub sign.
Folks tend to live in the real world and are not prepared to simply wait around indefinitely until LY decide to declare a loss which of course is not in their DNA whilst they promote the 'no investor has ever lost a penny' hogwash.
P2P investors expect losses here and there, that is the nature of the business. Unfortunately, or is it sadly, LY does not operate in the same world IMO.
Then everyone can be happy count them all as 100% loss after 2years and move on. You should still make a profit overall if you have invested wisely. I'd like to think you're right. But 'investing wisely' is easy in hindsight. No matter how much DD we did, and how wide we spread the risk, too many LY loans have gone into what most P2P lenders would call default. By the time we (or I at least) realised there was a problem, it was too late to get out. As it stands I'm ahead after interest across all P2P platforms, but a good 20% underwater with Lendy as I'm stuck with loans years overdue. If they pay back, great - I'll take back all my moaning.
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Mr_N
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Post by Mr_N on Dec 7, 2018 10:55:28 GMT
Then everyone can be happy count them all as 100% loss after 2years and move on. You should still make a profit overall if you have invested wisely. I'd like to think you're right. But 'investing wisely' is easy in hindsight. No matter how much DD we did, and how wide we spread the risk, too many LY loans have gone into what most P2P lenders would call default. By the time we (or I at least) realised there was a problem, it was too late to get out. As it stands I'm ahead after interest across all P2P platforms, but a good 20% underwater with Lendy as I'm stuck with loans years overdue. If they pay back, great - I'll take back all my moaning. Have you noticed that LY doesn't refer to any overdue investment, no matter how long it sits clocking up interest as a "default"? A culture of denial.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 7, 2018 12:43:11 GMT
Then everyone can be happy count them all as 100% loss after 2years and move on. You should still make a profit overall if you have invested wisely. I'd like to think you're right. But 'investing wisely' is easy in hindsight. No matter how much DD we did, and how wide we spread the risk, too many LY loans have gone into what most P2P lenders would call default. By the time we (or I at least) realised there was a problem, it was too late to get out. As it stands I'm ahead after interest across all P2P platforms, but a good 20% underwater with Lendy as I'm stuck with loans years overdue. If they pay back, great - I'll take back all my moaning. You are correct not a good situation but Lendy allows you to put any amount into a loan so if you had £100 and put 50p in 200 loans that had 2 year term at 12% by time 2years were up you would have About £25 interest compounded at that point if 20% did not pay on the day and you counted them a 100% loss you would loose £10 so still up 7.5% pa . Diversify,Diversify ,Diversify Any losses are tax deductible.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Dec 7, 2018 12:45:24 GMT
Part 2: The Sequel
December 7th, 2018
Dear ,
Thank you for your responses to yesterday’s email. As expected there have been plenty of questions about how we plan to affect a proactive and sustained recovery. We are confident of achieving this.
Not surprisingly, you also had specific questions on the individual loans you are invested in. We are currently in the process of reviewing each of these, so we can provide comprehensive answers. I hope you appreciate that to do this takes time, but we will communicate further updates in the days to come.
As an example of this, we closed on loan DFL027 yesterday. It was 77 days overdue, but the repayment was in full including accrued interest and bonus. We wrote to all investors as soon as the payments had been made to explain our actions in achieving this recovery and will do so with each loan repayment going forward whether in it is within the expected timescale or overdue.
Going forward it is our intention to provide more regular reports on loan status. However, there may be times when we have to be careful with the amount of detail disclosed if it could adversely impact our ability achieve the best outcome for you.
Further communication will be forthcoming over the coming weeks, but do continue to ask questions to ask@lendy.co.uk.
Yours sincerely,
Liam Brooke, CEO & Founder
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 7, 2018 12:49:48 GMT
Part 2: The Sequel
December 7th, 2018Dear ,Thank you for your responses to yesterday’s email. As expected there have been plenty of questions about how we plan to affect a proactive and sustained recovery. We are confident of achieving this. Not surprisingly, you also had specific questions on the individual loans you are invested in. We are currently in the process of reviewing each of these, so we can provide comprehensive answers. I hope you appreciate that to do this takes time, but we will communicate further updates in the days to come. As an example of this, we closed on loan DFL027 yesterday. It was 77 days overdue, but the repayment was in full including accrued interest and bonus. We wrote to all investors as soon as the payments had been made to explain our actions in achieving this recovery and will do so with each loan repayment going forward whether in it is within the expected timescale or overdue. Going forward it is our intention to provide more regular reports on loan status. However, there may be times when we have to be careful with the amount of detail disclosed if it could adversely impact our ability achieve the best outcome for you. Further communication will be forthcoming over the coming weeks, but do continue to ask questions to ask@lendy.co.uk. Yours sincerely,Liam Brooke, CEO & Founder Good for Liam let’s give him a chance to redeem himself and the loans .  By the way Monetus do you have time for Lendy don’t you have a meeting to get ready for 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 7, 2018 12:56:56 GMT
Have you noticed that LY doesn't refer to any overdue investment, no matter how long it sits clocking up interest as a "default"? A culture of denial. "Defaulted" is just a word. There are loans which have been suspended because they're behind. There are loans where the borrower has been put into administration or bankruptcy by Lendy. There are loans where the security has been exercised. There are loans where the security has left a shortfall, and legal action is being taken. I'm not aware of any loans where that legal action has been abandoned... So where in that lot do YOU put the "default" line? So on the "Claims Underway" tab... PBL056 - 62% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL065 - 70% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL066 - 100% capital repaid - Feb 2018, litigation underway PBL067 - 100% capital repaid - Feb 2018, litigation underway PBL074 - 100% capital repaid - Jan 2018, borrower bankrupt, working with trustee PBL081 - 66% capital repaid - Apr 2018, litigation underway PBL094 - 67% capital repaid - Apr 2018, litigation underway PBL123 - 100% capital repaid - Dec 2018, application for summary judgement lodged PBL147 - 100% capital repaid - Aug 2018, borrower bankrupt, working with trustee PBL155 - 40% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL161 - 66% capital repaid - May 2018, litigation underway PBL167 - 67% capital repaid - Aug 2018, litigation underway (So, without weighting for size of loan, I make that an average of 78% repaid over 12 loans, 5 of which are 100%, only 1 of which is <60%)
I don't think anybody would argue they were "defaulted", would they? Nothing seems to have been abandoned - even the ones where they're just chasing the unpaid interest from bankrupts... So which of the "non-performing" do you suggest they should give up on their current strategy, and push the borrower over the edge? I'm not going to go through 'em line-by-line (if you want to, feel free), but they all appear to be actively moving forwards, usually towards vacant possession and a sale. Are you suggesting that the updates are simply lies, and nothing's happening at all? Any loans in particular? Reading the latest update, I guess we'll find out soon enough. Or not.
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Mr_N
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Post by Mr_N on Dec 7, 2018 13:02:32 GMT
Have you noticed that LY doesn't refer to any overdue investment, no matter how long it sits clocking up interest as a "default"? A culture of denial. "Defaulted" is just a word. There are loans which have been suspended because they're behind. There are loans where the borrower has been put into administration or bankruptcy by Lendy. There are loans where the security has been exercised. There are loans where the security has left a shortfall, and legal action is being taken. I'm not aware of any loans where that legal action has been abandoned... So where in that lot do YOU put the "default" line? So on the "Claims Underway" tab... PBL056 - 62% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL065 - 70% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL066 - 100% capital repaid - Feb 2018, litigation underway PBL067 - 100% capital repaid - Feb 2018, litigation underway PBL074 - 100% capital repaid - Jan 2018, borrower bankrupt, working with trustee PBL081 - 66% capital repaid - Apr 2018, litigation underway PBL094 - 67% capital repaid - Apr 2018, litigation underway PBL123 - 100% capital repaid - Dec 2018, application for summary judgement lodged PBL147 - 100% capital repaid - Aug 2018, borrower bankrupt, working with trustee PBL155 - 40% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL161 - 66% capital repaid - May 2018, litigation underway PBL167 - 67% capital repaid - Aug 2018, litigation underway (So, without weighting for size of loan, I make that an average of 78% repaid over 12 loans, 5 of which are 100%, only 1 of which is <60%)
I don't think anybody would argue they were "defaulted", would they? Nothing seems to have been abandoned - even the ones where they're just chasing the unpaid interest from bankrupts... So which of the "non-performing" do you suggest they should give up on their current strategy, and push the borrower over the edge? I'm not going to go through 'em line-by-line (if you want to, feel free), but they all appear to be actively moving forwards, usually towards vacant possession and a sale. Are you suggesting that the updates are simply lies, and nothing's happening at all? Any loans in particular? Reading the latest update, I guess we'll find out soon enough. Or not.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Dec 7, 2018 13:46:18 GMT
"Defaulted" is just a word. There are loans which have been suspended because they're behind. There are loans where the borrower has been put into administration or bankruptcy by Lendy. There are loans where the security has been exercised. There are loans where the security has left a shortfall, and legal action is being taken. I'm not aware of any loans where that legal action has been abandoned... So where in that lot do YOU put the "default" line? So on the "Claims Underway" tab... PBL056 - 62% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL065 - 70% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL066 - 100% capital repaid - Feb 2018, litigation underway PBL067 - 100% capital repaid - Feb 2018, litigation underway PBL074 - 100% capital repaid - Jan 2018, borrower bankrupt, working with trustee PBL081 - 66% capital repaid - Apr 2018, litigation underway PBL094 - 67% capital repaid - Apr 2018, litigation underway PBL123 - 100% capital repaid - Dec 2018, application for summary judgement lodged PBL147 - 100% capital repaid - Aug 2018, borrower bankrupt, working with trustee PBL155 - 40% capital repaid - Mar 2018, litigation underway PBL161 - 66% capital repaid - May 2018, litigation underway PBL167 - 67% capital repaid - Aug 2018, litigation underway (So, without weighting for size of loan, I make that an average of 78% repaid over 12 loans, 5 of which are 100%, only 1 of which is <60%)
I don't think anybody would argue they were "defaulted", would they? Nothing seems to have been abandoned - even the ones where they're just chasing the unpaid interest from bankrupts... So which of the "non-performing" do you suggest they should give up on their current strategy, and push the borrower over the edge? I'm not going to go through 'em line-by-line (if you want to, feel free), but they all appear to be actively moving forwards, usually towards vacant possession and a sale. Are you suggesting that the updates are simply lies, and nothing's happening at all? Any loans in particular? Reading the latest update, I guess we'll find out soon enough. Or not. Not sure what your point is? They called for a common definition but it hasnt really been adopted outside of their limited membership. However, one non-member has adopted it ... Lendy! Collections & Recoveries Policy
IMHO a loan is in default if it is outside its agreed terms ie one or more of overdue interest (7 days), past term, breach of covenant, in recovery and has been defaulted if the platform has formally issued demand for repayment but that is more strict than the P2PFA definition. Whether a platform defaults a loan is discretionary and based on circumstance.
I also dont like the fact that Lendy doesnt use the HMRC bad debt 'treatable' definition, sticking to the 'become' one. That will be one point I will be raising in response to Liam's email. (Not the first time, some of us of been poking Lendy for a while now)
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Mr_N
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Post by Mr_N on Dec 7, 2018 13:51:54 GMT
Not sure what your point is? They called for a common definition but it hasnt really been adopted outside of their limited membership. However, one non-member has adopted it ... Lendy! Collections & Recoveries Policy
IMHO a loan is in default if it is outside its agreed terms ie one or more of overdue interest (7 days), past term, breach of covenant, in recovery and has been defaulted if the platform has formally issued demand for repayment but that is more strict than the P2PFA definition. Whether a platform defaults a loan is discretionary and based on circumstance.
I also dont like the fact that Lendy doesnt use the HMRC bad debt 'treatable' definition, sticking to the 'become' one. That will be one point I will be raising in response to Liam's email. (Not the first time, some of us of been poking Lendy for a while now)
Stop trying to redefine a default, you're done.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 7, 2018 14:12:06 GMT
So what's the P2PFA definition, in a soundbite?
OK, lovely. So which 120day+ loans have not had "recoveries started"?
All those in the "non-performing" list are, yes, 120+ - and they've all had substantial recovery action undertaken already, haven't they? Which haven't?
There's only one in the "live" list that's 120+. That's PBL193, 161 days - have recoveries been started? Well, that depends on your definition of recoveries, doesn't it? Lendy were starting to appoint an insolvency practioner in August, back when it would have only been about 60 days overdue, and they were formally appointed by the end of September - within the 120 days. I'd call that "recoveries", wouldn't you? A refinance is, allegedly, underway to repay capital, with an agreement in place from the start of November to repay all interest, including bonus, backed by a second charge against the property.
So what's next in line to hit 120 days?
DFL8 and 35. 70 days. Small partial repayments already made, refinance "within the next couple of days" this week. DFL5. 51 days. 20% repaid, refinance well underway.
DFL7. 50 days. Looking for refinance, "recovery procedures will commence if no offer in next couple of days" this week.
PBL133 and 194. 38 days. 133 84% repaid. Sale completions expected "by end of year" this week.
And nothing else over a week overdue.
It really doesn't seem to be a question of whether things are happening or not. It seems to be just a question of terminology. Frankly, I couldn't care less what word they use, so long as they extract digit.
Stop trying to redefine a default, you're done. Are we going to have a sensible discussion, or are you just going to stop listening to anything that doesn't agree with your preconceptions?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 14:20:39 GMT
+120 days is just crazy.
I'm pretty simple, if I'm promised money on a date that is the date I expect, I can just about see 30 days late as an issue of cash timing from one month to the other, otherwise the borrower is in default, end of. If they take more than 30 days to do what they agreed to do they have a significant problem and should be put into special measures to return capital and any extra interest.
120 days means that you are in the shits completely and going down for the last time.
My issue with DD is that I sign up to deals that people put forward and then they either can't perform or change their plans, if they did that without discussion where I've worked I'd sack them. I wouldn't wait, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days and then 120 days before accepting there is an issue.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Dec 7, 2018 14:22:26 GMT
Not sure what your point is? They called for a common definition but it hasnt really been adopted outside of their limited membership. However, one non-member has adopted it ... Lendy! Collections & Recoveries Policy
IMHO a loan is in default if it is outside its agreed terms ie one or more of overdue interest (7 days), past term, breach of covenant, in recovery and has been defaulted if the platform has formally issued demand for repayment but that is more strict than the P2PFA definition. Whether a platform defaults a loan is discretionary and based on circumstance.
I also dont like the fact that Lendy doesnt use the HMRC bad debt 'treatable' definition, sticking to the 'become' one. That will be one point I will be raising in response to Liam's email. (Not the first time, some of us of been poking Lendy for a while now)
Stop trying to redefine a default, you're done. But thats exactly what the article you linked to is doing ... trying to define a default. My point is that it hasnt succeeded but Lendy follows it. Of course, the actual definition of what is a default event is defined in the loan agreement and oddly enough appears to match mine. Turning a loan from in default to defaulted is at the discretion of the platform. Doesnt matter what word they use as long as situation is clear. Lendy's issue is communication not terminolgy.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Dec 7, 2018 14:42:37 GMT
It's largely irrelevant in my book what constitutes a default - whether it's 180 days, 120 days, etc, etc. What we are all aware of from experience is generally the longer a loan is overdue, then the chances of a positive outcome for lenders/investors gradually diminishes.
It's all well and good a number of platforms either keeping their heads hidden under a rock, in a shell or what have you, feeding meaningless back of a fag packet updates - all to keep their own default statistics looking good but at the end of the day it's us, the lenders that ultimately suffer financially.
I'm not in P2P to play games or engage in semantics.
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Post by ajscotland on Dec 7, 2018 15:27:05 GMT
I think that the method of defining a default is important.
HMRC provides the opportunity to set defaults against interest earned with the caveat that any recoveries will be taxed when they are received. The HMRC definition occurs much sooner in the "failure" process than Lendy and this is where the main difficulty arises
It requires each lender to do all the accounting for loans written off and subsequent recoveries. A nightmare if monitoring multiple loan in distress. By comparison Assetz Capital and Funding Circle do all the calculations or losses and recoveries within their tax statements
As an aside Lendy's view is that a Default is when all hope is lost. If Lendy Loans are held within a company then prudent Head of Finance would probably want to write down the value long before it got to the Lendy's definition
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Post by westcountryfunder on Dec 7, 2018 15:37:59 GMT
That is a generic email sent presumably to all Lendy investors, no idea why you feel it warrants a new thread or presumably you seek to expand your opportunities to comment on them. Your Welcome. Aw, give Mr_N a break! I see lots of emails from various P2P platforms repeated on here. Never have seen why they are necessary. On the other hand a certain administrator with IT 'experts' claims to have sent a recent email which numerous people haven't seen. So perhaps not so unnecessary.
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