hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jan 2, 2019 21:30:02 GMT
I had recently read analysis on this... pretty much 100% tax between 118 - 170K earnings with marginal Tax rate going over 100% between £118,800 - £122,600. It is really unfair for someone working double shifts, especially NHS surgeons who are now declining to work any overtime due to there being no financial gain to do so (well, there is a higher pension in the end...) causing longer NHS wait times etc. Small point but it's worth remembering that pension tax credits cost the government around £42bn/annum in lost tax revenue. This is more than the whole UK defence budget and also happens to be about the same size as the 2017/18 UK fiscal deficit. A vast proportion of this tax relief goes to the higher paid (40% or 45% taxpayers) or to corporations.
I've always found it rather strange that a Tory government was so ideologically obsessed by reducing the fiscal deficit somehow managed to miss this easy £40bn+ cut. Instead they decided to cut things like Disability Allowance, Incapacity Benefit, SureStart etc. It's almost like they were feathering the nests of certain voting demographics and didn't give a toss about poor people ...
Higher earners will just stop working or leave if tax goes any higher. Tax is already eye watering
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 2, 2019 23:51:41 GMT
I had recently read analysis on this... pretty much 100% tax between 118 - 170K earnings with marginal Tax rate going over 100% between £118,800 - £122,600. It is really unfair for someone working double shifts, especially NHS surgeons who are now declining to work any overtime due to there being no financial gain to do so (well, there is a higher pension in the end...) causing longer NHS wait times etc. Small point but it's worth remembering that pension tax credits cost the government around £42bn/annum in lost tax revenue. This is more than the whole UK defence budget and also happens to be about the same size as the 2017/18 UK fiscal deficit. A vast proportion of this tax relief goes to the higher paid (40% or 45% taxpayers) or to corporations.
I've always found it rather strange that a Tory government was so ideologically obsessed by reducing the fiscal deficit somehow managed to miss this easy £40bn+ cut. Instead they decided to cut things like Disability Allowance, Incapacity Benefit, SureStart etc. It's almost like they were feathering the nests of certain voting demographics and didn't give a toss about poor people ...
It's interesting that the tax credits are used for "hard working families" but without the notion that the real benefactor for all those jobs with low pay are actually subsidising the businesses who are paying low wages. So technically we have business welfare state too. The other thing is it's much easier to punish the poor, dispossessed and needy as they don't really have the power to rise up - they are too busy surviving. The business world will pay large sums to lobby ferociously. Mind you if they mess with the pensioners then they will be for it. Its always been a thin line before the peasants will actually revolt, but thankfully not many of us speak french so it's been much easier to keep the masses down and under control. "little bit of politics there" - Ben elton circa 1990's
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yangmills
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Post by yangmills on Jan 3, 2019 9:00:22 GMT
Higher earners will just stop working or leave if tax goes any higher. Tax is already eye watering It might feel that way but there is little quantitative evidence to support that view. On a £100k salary, the UK effective income tax rate (inc NIC) is 34.7%. For other developed countries for the same amount (at the equivalent FX rate): Australia (33%), France (59%), Germany (38%), Ireland (41%), Spain (34%), Sweden (45%), US (34%). Zug in Switzerland is at 24% but have you seen how much a latte costs there now? Plus you'll be bored out of your mind in two years. Clearly you can work in the tax-free parts of the Middle East but you might end up losing a hand. The Asian tigers have lower tax but you can forget about national healthcare or pensions and they are authoritarian regimes. For higher compensation levels, the UK's 47% marginal rate will start to look poor vs. the US at 37% but do really want to live under the Trumpster. Plus you can't elicit sympathy from anyone once you earn 25x+ the UK national average. I've tried but got threatened with pitchforks.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jan 3, 2019 9:51:14 GMT
It might feel that way but there is little quantitative evidence to support that view. On a £100k salary, the UK effective income tax rate (inc NIC) is 34.7%. For other developed countries for the same amount (at the equivalent FX rate): Australia (33%), France (59%), Germany (38%), Ireland (41%), Spain (34%), Sweden (45%), US (34%). Zug in Switzerland is at 24% but have you seen how much a latte costs there now? Plus you'll be bored out of your mind in two years. Clearly you can work in the tax-free parts of the Middle East but you might end up losing a hand. The Asian tigers have lower tax but you can forget about national healthcare or pensions and they are authoritarian regimes. For higher compensation levels, the UK's 47% marginal rate will start to look poor vs. the US at 37% but do really want to live under the Trumpster. Plus you can't elicit sympathy from anyone once you earn 25x+ the UK national average. I've tried but got threatened with pitchforks. That's an interesting list - but how does the international comparison change when you include employers NI contributions? I have no idea about the other countries there but it certainly makes a difference if your like-for-like pre-tax salary was increased 15% everywhere else.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jan 3, 2019 9:52:33 GMT
Higher earners will just stop working or leave if tax goes any higher. Tax is already eye watering It might feel that way but there is little quantitative evidence to support that view. On a £100k salary, the UK effective income tax rate (inc NIC) is 34.7%. For other developed countries for the same amount (at the equivalent FX rate): Australia (33%), France (59%), Germany (38%), Ireland (41%), Spain (34%), Sweden (45%), US (34%). Zug in Switzerland is at 24% but have you seen how much a latte costs there now? Plus you'll be bored out of your mind in two years. Clearly you can work in the tax-free parts of the Middle East but you might end up losing a hand. The Asian tigers have lower tax but you can forget about national healthcare or pensions and they are authoritarian regimes. For higher compensation levels, the UK's 47% marginal rate will start to look poor vs. the US at 37% but do really want to live under the Trumpster. Plus you can't elicit sympathy from anyone once you earn 25x+ the UK national average. I've tried but got threatened with pitchforks.
Pension tapering tax has only come into force the last two years. I have already seen most of my colleagues dropping to reduced hours and not doing much needed additional paid work to keep their taxable income < 100k. Unless the government capitulates current tax policy is 100% guaranteed to bring the NHS to its knees in the next year or two. I have just dropped to a 4 day week and declined guaranteed additional work of 60k gross in 18/19 because of high tax
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 3, 2019 9:53:03 GMT
Small point but it's worth remembering that pension tax credits cost the government around £42bn/annum in lost tax revenue. This is more than the whole UK defence budget and also happens to be about the same size as the 2017/18 UK fiscal deficit. A vast proportion of this tax relief goes to the higher paid (40% or 45% taxpayers) or to corporations.
I've always found it rather strange that a Tory government was so ideologically obsessed by reducing the fiscal deficit somehow managed to miss this easy £40bn+ cut. Instead they decided to cut things like Disability Allowance, Incapacity Benefit, SureStart etc. It's almost like they were feathering the nests of certain voting demographics and didn't give a toss about poor people ...
The other thing is it's much easier to punish the poor, dispossessed and needy as they don't really have the power to rise up - they are too busy surviving. Not sure how the poor are 'punished' given the size of the welfare state. As to power, they can and do vote Labour.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 3, 2019 9:59:46 GMT
It might feel that way but there is little quantitative evidence to support that view. On a £100k salary, the UK effective income tax rate (inc NIC) is 34.7%. For other developed countries for the same amount (at the equivalent FX rate): Australia (33%), France (59%), Germany (38%), Ireland (41%), Spain (34%), Sweden (45%), US (34%). Zug in Switzerland is at 24% but have you seen how much a latte costs there now? Plus you'll be bored out of your mind in two years. Clearly you can work in the tax-free parts of the Middle East but you might end up losing a hand. The Asian tigers have lower tax but you can forget about national healthcare or pensions and they are authoritarian regimes. For higher compensation levels, the UK's 47% marginal rate will start to look poor vs. the US at 37% but do really want to live under the Trumpster. Plus you can't elicit sympathy from anyone once you earn 25x+ the UK national average. I've tried but got threatened with pitchforks.
Pension tapering tax has only come into force the last two years. I have already seen most of my colleagues dropping to reduced hours and not doing much needed additional paid work to keep their taxable income < 100k. Unless the government capitulates current tax policy is 100% guaranteed to bring the NHS to its knees in the next year or two. I have just dropped to a 4 day week and declined guaranteed additional work of 60k gross in 18/19 because of high tax This is true of many in the NHS and will be a massive problem.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 3, 2019 13:14:49 GMT
Easily sorted - drop the salaries of those people so that they would not get to 100k while working full time and additional days.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jan 3, 2019 13:21:07 GMT
Easily sorted - drop the salaries of those people so that they would not get to 100k while working full time and additional days. That doesn’t work when there is already a critical shortage of staff and multiple unfilled posts. Again people will just leave and can name their price at another place of their choosing. Next idea?
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jan 3, 2019 13:44:35 GMT
Easily sorted - drop the salaries of those people so that they would not get to 100k while working full time and additional days. That doesn’t work when there is already a critical shortage of staff and multiple unfilled posts. Again people will just leave and can name their price at another place of their choosing. Next idea? These sound like the sort of 'positions' that are steadily being replaced with machines. The 'day of the artisan' is soon to be.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jan 3, 2019 13:53:03 GMT
That doesn’t work when there is already a critical shortage of staff and multiple unfilled posts. Again people will just leave and can name their price at another place of their choosing. Next idea? These sound like the sort of 'positions' that are steadily being replaced with machines. The 'day of the artisan' is soon to be. I’m talking mainly about doctors and surgeons. I hope they can be replaced by machines by time I’m old enough to need one because this government is encouraging many to retire/go part time/emigrate. Just pointing out that higher rate tax is now a lot higher than the claimed amount due to severe and devious stealth taxes. It is a crazy situation where you have a huge demand for skilled people who want to work very hard but won’t because they will pay tax 60 - 140%
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scc
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Post by scc on Jan 3, 2019 13:56:12 GMT
I've been fortunate enough to earn minimum wage and in one memorable year earned more than £100K. Given the choice, I'd never go back to minimum wage if I could help it and sympathise with those struggling on it. But, it's often hardly a picnic being in higher earning roles as they often come with higher expectations from family etc, more stress, more responsibilities and more hours. Ultimately, we all only have one life and no amount of money can buy that much in terms of additional life span (although looking at the elder members of the Royal family...) There comes a point when time is worth more than money.
Increased tax rates (marginal and otherwise) were only one factor is going part-time for me, but it would be wrong to say I didn't take them into consideration at all.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jan 3, 2019 13:59:54 GMT
These sound like the sort of 'positions' that are steadily being replaced with machines. The 'day of the artisan' is soon to be. I’m talking mainly about doctors and surgeons. I hope they can be replaced by machines by time I’m old enough to need one because this government is encouraging many to retire/go part time/emigrate. Just pointing out that higher rate tax is now a lot higher than the claimed amount due to severe and devious stealth taxes. It is a crazy situation where you have a huge demand for skilled people who want to work very hard but won’t because they will pay tax 60 - 140% It was surprisingly obvious who you were talking about.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 3, 2019 14:05:56 GMT
I’m talking mainly about doctors and surgeons. I hope they can be replaced by machines by time I’m old enough to need one because this government is encouraging many to retire/go part time/emigrate. Just pointing out that higher rate tax is now a lot higher than the claimed amount due to severe and devious stealth taxes. It is a crazy situation where you have a huge demand for skilled people who want to work very hard but won’t because they will pay tax 60 - 140% It was surprisingly obvious who you were talking about. If AI etc. does start hitting high income jobs (I could see AI checking scans in the next 10 years), the loss of such jobs will impact on taxation levels. A number of people say "well, we've always coped with automation in the past (e.g. in agriculture)", but that's not a guarantee for the future. Very much depends on how many jobs are lost and what (currently unknown) future jobs exist.
and bang on time...
"Hospitals will be hit by “mayhem” this weekend because of the coming cold snap, a growing number of people with flu and the NHS’s staffing problems, a leading doctor has warned.
Dr Nick Scriven, president of the Society for Acute Medicine, said hospitals will face “severe difficulties” this weekend as lower temperatures lead to a surge in patients needing care."
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coop
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Post by coop on Jan 3, 2019 14:08:49 GMT
My heart truly bleeds for all these poor unfortunate souls on over £100k a year...
Grow the hell up life isn't all about you and your bloody pension contributions. Maybe grow a little empathy and humility while you're at it!
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