travolta
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Post by travolta on May 5, 2019 7:30:37 GMT
Come again? You are living in cloud cuckoo land. Raw materials? That's why we import them. Some one has sold you the current android story and you swallowed it . By the way your stats on employment are a myth too unless you really believe in zero hours contracts. Walk around the mean streets and count the bodies. As soon as somebody starts refusing to believe the politically-independent official stats, there's absolute zero point in even attempting to have a rational debate, because there's simply nothing left bar meaningless soundbites. Poo. Anyone can massage iffy stats , as you well know. (and why are you on this site? Because you believed them and got burnt) Give me pictures and tone poems every time...
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 5, 2019 11:10:26 GMT
We arenot using any coal to make electricity this afternoon, nor oil.
So what does this mean in practice?
It must take weeks to shut a coalfired power station down, and then bring it back on line. What is actually happening in the short period when it shows nil contribution from coal?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 13:55:01 GMT
Coal station shut downs, well, I'm not an expert but I used to work with GEC engineers and CEGB (remember them) engineers and they told me that boilers come online pretty quickly in 8 to 24 hours from cold. But then you can run the boiler just to keep the thing spinning which is pretty low energy using. Given that we only have 16 of the things still being used and most of them are not used for more than half a day a day tops (go look at the meters I offered earlier). During that time the are just spinning without "taking a load". Taking a load is when the rotor of the turbine drives the alternator to produce power. They are all aimed to phase out in the next few years because they will not get us to reach Paris and frankly they are either too old or too small to be converted to bio-gas, wood chip etc.
The interesting company in this sector to read up about is Drax. Lead by a very strategic chairwoman they have sought out, found and researched much of the UK's most interesting technologies to remove "fossil CO2" from the system. The wood chip solution is frankly not without its critics, but as they said at the time, "if we could buy this much wood in Europe we would". They have now vertically intergrated their supply chain, buying wood chipping plants in the US when they got into financial difficulty. Good business practise, innovative and sensible. A real eye-opener in seeing what can be done in a capitalist system to reduce fossil CO2 while keeping the lights on and making money. Critics they have, I'll let you decide.
If you are looking for other, similar "green" or semi-green companies you might also look at
TRIG; an owner of wind and solar farms across Europe
ITM: a maker of electrolysers to generate H2 from wind and solar energy based in Sheffield
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 14:00:27 GMT
Poo. Anyone can massage iffy stats , as you well know. That does not mean that good statistics are a poor source of information. It is too easy to poo-poo statistics when what is normally the case is a lack of understanding of the research and the ability to understand statistics, which is taught very badly in the UK to those who don't complete a first University science degree. In addition the British do like to poo-poo experts and knowledge. The love of the amateur and phrases like "lies, lies and damn statistics" are used to cover lack of education and knowledge.
Facts are facts and sometimes they are statistically based. Individual cases do not invalidate statistics, they are merely individual cases.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 14:20:28 GMT
I do feel very strongly that we should bit the bullet and pay more. Do you not think that the GBP would respond to the reality?) I remember the story that Michael Porter (famous US Economist and business Professor) went to China and saw a 100,000 people building a dam with hand shovels and it was explained to him that this demonstrated what that the Chinese could throw at a project to find work for people. He asked if they had tried 200,000 people with half sized hand shovels.
Why should we want to pay more to do something we are trying to stop? The UK, based on the science we understand, has agreed to reduce our CO2 generation in a legally binding agreement backed up by a change to UK law. That is to reduce our CO2 generation. Logically, therefore, we should leave the coal in the ground where it is. Similar arguments exist for North Sea Oil, and will eventually be followed by natural gas. The future is not CO2, petrol and diesel, the future is battery and hydrogen and the sooner people come to realise it the better for us all. In the same way that the clog factory of Hebden Bridge now turns out only 10 clogs a day, its time has passed and having worked with miners over the years, they would all say "thank god".
That 11 intelligent people have failed to find work some years after a project has finished does really challenge their ability to find work. In my life I have had to close businesses, I have managed to turn businesses around and I have sold businesses to new interesting owners. Because of this I have learnt to develop people and to present them to their new employers as employable and to help them start up their own businesses (in many cases with mental health and drug problems). I have never yet found a person who cannot find work inside 6 months if they have the mind to do so and they have advice to guide them. The process of one-stop/jobcentreplus etc is well developed to find people work, but not so good at setting up their own business. However, many colleges florish offering that second idea at very low costs or even for free. By chance I have our local college details front of me and there are loads of opportunites.
The only two areas where I can see a real struggle is 1) health problems 2) no home to live in, in this second are I believe the UK state is not doing a good job.
The £ has been falling against a basket of currencies since 1945 (really, go look) it is the one certainty of my life that it will continue to do so as the Treasury under all parties understands that the British are pretty awful business people and we need a collapsing currency to have a chance in this world. Moving capital to re-envigorate coal mines that have a short life span might be a logical thing for idiot Jeremy to do but would just be money taken out of the NHS for the rest of us. Net affect in the market would just confirm that JC needs to stay out of power but nothing important on that issue alone.
The facts
Coal in the UK - 2017. The UK consumed 14.2 million tonnes of coal in 2017, including 8.7 million tonnes in power stations, 3.2 million tonnes in the steel industry and 1.5 million tonnes in other industry. Coal imports to the UK were 8.5 million tonnes, the same as the previous year.
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scc
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Post by scc on May 6, 2019 5:18:07 GMT
Trees are relatively cheap (you can get a 1-2 year old tree for around 50p) - it's having land to plant them on which is the tricky thing. We have massive unnatural moorlands all over the country left there after the middleages. Easy peasy. Everytime you go for a walk take a catapult and a bag of seeds. If they can manage it in Kenya.. www.seedballskenya.com/throw-grow/4592995996I don't disagree on there is physically land to spare - but unless you are suggesting guerrilla tree planting access and ownership might still be a problem.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 6:24:53 GMT
Legal, natural and "assisted" all seem good to me. The many moorlands we have are unnatural, let's get rid of them.
One of the strange thing that I've discovered as part of a "in-bloom" group is people do not take responsability for public spaces, but instead are afraid to modify or improve them. They are public spaces and deserve to be kept clean, unspoiled and unless identified as having importance for scientific or natural reasons are open to improvement. I can think of nothing better than growing a tree.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 6, 2019 7:14:45 GMT
We have massive unnatural moorlands all over the country left there after the middleages. Easy peasy. Everytime you go for a walk take a catapult and a bag of seeds. If they can manage it in Kenya.. www.seedballskenya.com/throw-grow/4592995996I don't disagree on there is physically land to spare - but unless you are suggesting guerrilla tree planting access and ownership might still be a problem. Land use across the UK... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41901294Moorland comes under "natural". I'll leave it to you to decide if that's accurate or not - but notice the expansion of that heading... "natural or semi-natural (moors, heathland, natural grassland etc)" UK - 34.9% England - 14.5% NI - 23.5% Scotland - 70.7% Wales - 35.1% There's a link through from that article to the European project that defines the methodology. www.eea.europa.eu/publications/COR0-landcover
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 12:14:58 GMT
Maybe the Billions spent so far would have been more productive preparing "For it" and "Attempting to live with it" rather than trying to "Prevent it" ... according to some, there's only 11 years left to save the next generation, unfortunately the African and Asian continents aint listening. edit. and outside of EU/USA RESOURCES .. they are putting nothing into it either. Ah the pressure from Africa!
I suspect a forcus on asia pacific would be more sensible
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travolta
Member of DD Central
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Post by travolta on May 6, 2019 15:21:48 GMT
Poo. Anyone can massage iffy stats , as you well know. That does not mean that good statistics are a poor source of information. It is too easy to poo-poo statistics when what is normally the case is a lack of understanding of the research and the ability to understand statistics, which is taught very badly in the UK to those who don't complete a first University science degree. In addition the British do like to poo-poo experts and knowledge. The love of the amateur and phrases like "lies, lies and damn statistics" are used to cover lack of education and knowledge.
Facts are facts and sometimes they are statistically based. Individual cases do not invalidate statistics, they are merely individual cases.
Actually you are WRONG on all counts. Individual cases are not 'merely' . You are on this site as an individual(either for info or entertainment). The pain of life: unemployment ,loss if money, frustration etc cannot be quantified by Stats. Even intelligent people can't control this ,let alone thick ones. Really you should be ashamed of that last post (and the usual suspects who find comfort and like ). I have seen a grown (intelligent) man smack his head on the table with frustration at the inability to control the circumstances of his life( due to responsibilities and lack of choice). Stats are just a comfortable bromide to evade the unpalatable truth. You must be removed from humanity to discount individual cases so casually. PS Ever tried driving an electric tractor /destroyer?
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Post by captainconfident on May 6, 2019 19:21:28 GMT
As soon as somebody starts refusing to believe the politically-independent official stats, there's absolute zero point in even attempting to have a rational debate, because there's simply nothing left bar meaningless soundbites. Poo. Anyone can massage iffy stats , as you well know. (and why are you on this site? Because you believed them and got burnt) Give me pictures and tone poems every time... 64.06% of statistics are just made up on the spot.
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Post by martin44 on May 6, 2019 22:12:12 GMT
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Post by martin44 on May 6, 2019 22:23:09 GMT
Maybe the Billions spent so far would have been more productive preparing "For it" and "Attempting to live with it" rather than trying to "Prevent it" ... according to some, there's only 11 years left to save the next generation, unfortunately the African and Asian continents aint listening. edit. and outside of EU/USA RESOURCES .. they are putting nothing into it either. Ah the pressure from Africa!
I suspect a forcus on asia pacific would be more sensible
I would agree, but the point im making is africa is light years behind, lets say china, who have only relatively recently become a world power continent, when africa catches on, as india is doing at the moment, do you think their expansion will be based on a green environmental expansion? personally i doubt it, i would expect them to progress down the same route as china and the rest of asia. edit.. Climate change is a monumental battle........... Unwinnable in my opinion..... Certainly in the short term.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 7:54:13 GMT
That does not mean that good statistics are a poor source of information. It is too easy to poo-poo statistics when what is normally the case is a lack of understanding of the research and the ability to understand statistics, which is taught very badly in the UK to those who don't complete a first University science degree. In addition the British do like to poo-poo experts and knowledge. The love of the amateur and phrases like "lies, lies and damn statistics" are used to cover lack of education and knowledge.
Facts are facts and sometimes they are statistically based. Individual cases do not invalidate statistics, they are merely individual cases.
Individual cases are not 'merely' . I agree, you take my word out of context, but I agree that no one is a "merely". Don't worry I too have smacked my head into the proverbial kitchen table. I too have had to try and help men crying with frustation, or in one case lifting a massive steel gate off its hinges to hurl into a yard. People are people and deserve a lot of support.
To reject statistics is also wrong, the individual and the whole are two different perspectives of the same issue. To not face up to individual issues and blame it on the whole is as silly as to not face up to the whole issue and blame it on the individual.
What I have found, for the individual, is that it takes a lot of bravery to face up to the options in life, to see past what looks like a barrier, to step out of the cage and to make a change in ones life. These comments may look like a lot of blather, but really many people stay in a cage and close the door on themselves rather than fly free. That bravery is amazing and can often come from some very damaged individuals. I hope your 11 contacts/friends can dig deep and find it. I know it isn't easy.
Have a good day.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 8:04:03 GMT
Ah the pressure from Africa!
I suspect a forcus on asia pacific would be more sensible
I would agree, but the point im making is africa is light years behind, lets say china, who have only relatively recently become a world power continent, when africa catches on, as india is doing at the moment, do you think their expansion will be based on a green environmental expansion? personally i doubt it, i would expect them to progress down the same route as china and the rest of asia. edit.. Climate change is a monumental battle........... Unwinnable in my opinion..... Certainly in the short term. Yes it will be tough, just look at the debates here with educated liberals here, imagine the discussion with people who have no regular power, no light at night etc. The drivers to make families and to raise families stimulates a consumption that has to expected, it is a core human driver (as it is for all animals), somehow we have to let that happen while keeping coal and oil in the ground. Africa may offer some real solutions. For example, as a continent, they generally have moved to mobile phones without duplicating the land line system (as we have in the west) and they have also managed to step around some of the consumption of the traditional bank in the same way. This shows that not all consumption as described by the western model is needed and may not be provided.
Sure going to be an interesting ride. I have to place my hope on the fact that as countries "westernise" they tend to produce fewer children, so "with great wealth comes fewer consumers". In reality that probably is our only hope.
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