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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 16:41:11 GMT
Maybe that is the difference, I've worked in and for businesses closely aligned to China, Iran, Russia and privately I would no more trade with them or visit them for a holiday than I would visit a monster as I know what the places are really like. Interestingly China is taking climate change seriously with significant developments in non-coal power stations, both Iran and Russia have no other businesses as they have hollowed out their economies to support just oil and gas. Once people don't want oil or gas they will have serious issues.
Many years ago I remember people saying they would not wear seat belts and would not give up smoking, and yet, slowly the simple truth got through to people. Both put their lives in danger and/or hurt those they loved, so they stopped the silly things.
If your argument is that the science is not clear, I'm sorry but now you are wrong (and I for one don't want to wait to find out one way or the other but I would be happy if you were right)
If your argument is that people will not accept a change in their standard of living, I suspect the answer is "as long as they don't notice they will put up with it" hence we have food products getting smaller rather than prices rising, we reduce car parking availability by 10% a year in a town so no one notices etc. The boiled frog issue works both ways. After all that is how Ryanair gently pushes up the costs of holidays. Certainly if you offered people, suddenly, no holidays they would have a problem, but steady changes will just shift past them like fog in the morning.
But change is not the same as reduction. And the real trick will be to offer change that people want while reducing CO2. After all, do you really care if your steel is made using coke or H2 as long as the price is roughly the same?
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Post by martin44 on Sept 5, 2019 20:26:57 GMT
Maybe that is the difference, I've worked in and for businesses closely aligned to China, Iran, Russia and privately I would no more trade with them or visit them for a holiday than I would visit a monster as I know what the places are really like. Interestingly China is taking climate change seriously with significant developments in non-coal power stations, both Iran and Russia have no other businesses as they have hollowed out their economies to support just oil and gas. Once people don't want oil or gas they will have serious issues.
Many years ago I remember people saying they would not wear seat belts and would not give up smoking, and yet, slowly the simple truth got through to people. Both put their lives in danger and/or hurt those they loved, so they stopped the silly things.
If your argument is that the science is not clear, I'm sorry but now you are wrong (and I for one don't want to wait to find out one way or the other but I would be happy if you were right)
If your argument is that people will not accept a change in their standard of living, I suspect the answer is "as long as they don't notice they will put up with it" hence we have food products getting smaller rather than prices rising, we reduce car parking availability by 10% a year in a town so no one notices etc. The boiled frog issue works both ways. After all that is how Ryanair gently pushes up the costs of holidays. Certainly if you offered people, suddenly, no holidays they would have a problem, but steady changes will just shift past them like fog in the morning.
But change is not the same as reduction. And the real trick will be to offer change that people want while reducing CO2. After all, do you really care if your steel is made using coke or H2 as long as the price is roughly the same?
Unfortunately there are just too many countries on the planet that simply cannot afford to go green, and most of those countries populous will indeed notice, they will notice very much, and i doubt they will be happy to be told by the likes of the UK. USA, THE EU and other perceived "imperialistic" countries that they should adopt our proposed policies on climate change. notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2018/05/29/developing-nations-need-coal/ However that certainly doesn't stop them cleaning up their own countries with regards to the cr*p they seem happy to dump in their rivers and oceans. 
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Sept 5, 2019 20:59:12 GMT
martin44 Agree with your point about river/ocean pollution. Though the UK can clearly do better wrt recycling plastic, I find ridiculous the idea that having a plastic bottle deposit scheme in the UK is going to make any real difference to the world's oceans, given it's a matter of record that most plastic pollution is due to the third world.
If the government want to do something significant, let them start reducing the number of flights from the UK or invest heavily in infrastructure for electric cars (cancelling HS2 would help with the cost)
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Post by martin44 on Sept 5, 2019 21:17:27 GMT
martin44 Agree with your point about river/ocean pollution. Though the UK can clearly do better wrt recycling plastic, I find ridiculous the idea that having a plastic bottle deposit scheme in the UK is going to make any real difference to the world's oceans, given it's a matter of record that most plastic pollution is due to the third world.
If the government want to do something significant, let them start reducing the number of flights from the UK or invest heavily in infrastructure for electric cars (cancelling HS2 would help with the cost) Agreed... the vast majority of plastics in the uk are surely coming from china  everything you buy is locked into an impenetrable coating of diamond strength plastic.... to get to the item you have to carve it open with a Stanley knife, but first you have to get the Stanley knife out of "its" extremely sharp and dangerous plastic sarcophagus...   " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/superangry.png"> 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 7:49:29 GMT
Maybe that is the difference, I've worked in and for businesses closely aligned to China, Iran, Russia and privately I would no more trade with them or visit them for a holiday than I would visit a monster as I know what the places are really like. Interestingly China is taking climate change seriously with significant developments in non-coal power stations, both Iran and Russia have no other businesses as they have hollowed out their economies to support just oil and gas. Once people don't want oil or gas they will have serious issues.
Many years ago I remember people saying they would not wear seat belts and would not give up smoking, and yet, slowly the simple truth got through to people. Both put their lives in danger and/or hurt those they loved, so they stopped the silly things.
If your argument is that the science is not clear, I'm sorry but now you are wrong (and I for one don't want to wait to find out one way or the other but I would be happy if you were right)
If your argument is that people will not accept a change in their standard of living, I suspect the answer is "as long as they don't notice they will put up with it" hence we have food products getting smaller rather than prices rising, we reduce car parking availability by 10% a year in a town so no one notices etc. The boiled frog issue works both ways. After all that is how Ryanair gently pushes up the costs of holidays. Certainly if you offered people, suddenly, no holidays they would have a problem, but steady changes will just shift past them like fog in the morning.
But change is not the same as reduction. And the real trick will be to offer change that people want while reducing CO2. After all, do you really care if your steel is made using coke or H2 as long as the price is roughly the same?
Unfortunately there are just too many countries on the planet that simply cannot afford to go green, and most of those countries populous will indeed notice, they will notice very much, and i doubt they will be happy to be told by the likes of the UK. USA, THE EU and other perceived "imperialistic" countries that they should adopt our proposed policies on climate change. notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2018/05/29/developing-nations-need-coal/ However that certainly doesn't stop them cleaning up their own countries with regards to the cr*p they seem happy to dump in their rivers and oceans. Yet off shore wind is cheaper and more stable than coal power stations. Since Indonesia is by far the largest coal power station builder at the moment and is made up islands some of which are flooding at high tide they financially should be building turbines.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Sept 6, 2019 8:59:55 GMT
martin44 Agree with your point about river/ocean pollution. Though the UK can clearly do better wrt recycling plastic, I find ridiculous the idea that having a plastic bottle deposit scheme in the UK is going to make any real difference to the world's oceans, given it's a matter of record that most plastic pollution is due to the third world.
If the government want to do something significant, let them start reducing the number of flights from the UK or invest heavily in infrastructure for electric cars (cancelling HS2 would help with the cost) Agreed... the vast majority of plastics in the uk are surely coming from china everything you buy is locked into an impenetrable coating of diamond strength plastic.... to get to the item you have to carve it open with a Stanley knife, but first you have to get the Stanley knife out of "its" extremely sharp and dangerous plastic sarcophagus... " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/superangry.png"> This is the sort of article I remember seeing a while back "Just 10 rivers carry 90% of plastic polluting the oceans" ( here)
Regarding plastic, I try to recycle all I can but not all types are collected by my local council, so I can't see a bottle deposit scheme being anything other than an annoyance from my point of view. Time will tell whether it encourages people to recycle who don't currently.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 9:36:06 GMT
I agree non-use of plastics is far better than recycling, but until the customers start rejecting the plastic and as long as the cost of "dumping" waste continues to be less than the true cost of removal, then we will keep not using the material correctly. My Swiss friends and relations are charged SF5 for each kg of waste put in their bins. They refuse to take packaging home and make the store rethink their packaging mechanisms (the store also gets the SF5 charge). Hence very little plastic in the system except for drinks bottles. The charge on drinks bottles means that only an idiot chucks the bottle out of the window of their speeding car, hence very little litter.
This, of course, does nothing for the massive island of plastic in the Pacific which is down to local waste management (dump everything in the river), other solutions needed. The oil industry is looking ahead to a future where they sell less oil for energy but sell more oil as plastic. Hence most oil Majors now have plastic plants being built around the world. Going to be tough to push back on that one, if only we had a special tool, let's call it "education"........
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Sept 12, 2019 16:19:56 GMT
"Heathrow third runway activists arrested before drone protest" ( in the Guardian). Plod 1, Extremists Rebellion 0 |
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registerme
Member of DD Central
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Post by registerme on Sept 12, 2019 16:27:25 GMT
"Heathrow third runway activists arrested before drone protest" ( in the Guardian). Plod 1, Extremists Rebellion 0 Surely that's Boris, right? I thought he was going to lie (die?) down in a ditch or something, in front of the diggers?
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 12, 2019 16:46:34 GMT
"Heathrow third runway activists arrested before drone protest" ( in the Guardian). Plod 1, Extremists Rebellion 0 Surely that's Boris, right? I thought he was going to lie (die?) down in a ditch or something, in front of the diggers? yes, when I saw he made the "die in a ditch" comment regarding Brexit extension, I did immediately wonder whether that was a ditch in front of a digger or just some other ditch. Maybe he's got his extensions mixed up.
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Post by martin44 on Sept 12, 2019 21:45:32 GMT
It will be interesting watching Boris's progression as PM with regards to climate change, considering his remarks about his dislike of a heathrow extension and his bromance with arch denier Mr Trump.
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sd2
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Post by sd2 on Sept 19, 2019 10:41:17 GMT
Interestingly China is taking climate change seriously with significant developments in non-coal power stations It is selling the technology for dirty, high co2 producing coal power stations to India. I suspect (but don't know) they are just going through the motions. Like most dictatorships they are just keeping the people in check.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 11:28:59 GMT
I am not an apologist for China but I am aware of their growing focus on non-coal power stations.
Really interesting in this sale as I am someone who tried to sell Chinese made equipment in India. I'm very impressed someone else has succeeded as the two countries hate each other. I'd love to see the link that lets me understand the technology concerned. Meanwhile India's love of coal continues unabated much to their shame.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 19, 2019 21:05:44 GMT
Playing around with it reveals some definite surprises. Zoom in on the "Other Asia" region. Japan and South Korea are heavy with coal power... I'm surprised the US isn't showing any planned. I thought that was one of Trump's pledges?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 9:11:16 GMT
Trump is busy removing pollution controls so coal power plants are worth investing in. However, the US has planning laws like other western countries and power plant builders are aware that 1) Trump will not last forever and 2) solar and wind energy are cheaper. So the only places you would see more coal power plants is somewhere like Virginia. Still, it is good to see that despite the orange fool some people are keeping their investing hands in their pockets.
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everything you buy is locked into an impenetrable coating of diamond strength plastic.... to get to the item you have to carve it open with a Stanley knife, but first you have to get the Stanley knife out of "its" extremely sharp and dangerous plastic sarcophagus... 
" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/superangry.png"> 
