keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 10, 2023 22:19:45 GMT
Better late than never. Sorry my troll detector isn't as tuned as your's. I recall the same person totally falling to notice factual corrections from multiple posters on his complete misunderstanding of smart meters now. It's only now that I look back that I realise that it's most unlikely that anyone was quite that hard of thinking. Anyway, problem solved now. do some research on smart meters ... they are not installed meters, the vast majority are internet activated meters, connected to your supplier... of course they are installed meters, they are on the wall in your house, thus installed. they are not on the INTERNET if they were it would be much easier to get at the data. The data is transmitted .and can be pulled by the DCC so the gas and electricity meters talk to the comms hubm it encrypts the data and sends messages to the DCC ( and also in clear to your IHD) the DCC sends the data after de-encryption to the DNO and your supplier. The system used is entirely separate from the internet.
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Post by mostlywrong on Aug 11, 2023 8:13:17 GMT
I cannot see how we can persuade Homo Sapiens that an invisible gas produced by human activities is having a detrimental effect on the planet, and we should modify our behaviour, when large numbers of the species consider it perfectly acceptable to throw their visible rubbish out of the car window/house/flat/business.
And yet, surprisingly, there is a precedent for this and it has been successful. Remember the hole in the ozone layer and the serious amount of consternation that was generating a few decades ago? You never hear of it these days, because Homo Sapiens was persuaded to alter its behaviour. As a result, global warming has been slowed a little and the 'hole' is now much healthier: "The ozone layer is on track to recover within four decades". Good point.
I well remember the R12 and R134A game. My company was just about to roll out a load of stuff that used R12 and, after fierce discussion, we had to change tack. Great fun!
The other major change in our lifetime was the removal of lead from petrol.
And an earlier example was the removal of lead pipes from the water supply.
I note, however, that lead based additives are still available in the auto market and that R12 is still available from Amazon and ebay.
A later example, and one that is still underway, is the removal of coal from power generation.
So, various tribes of Homo Sapiens can be persuaded to change their behaviour.
But it will be a very long haul. The tribe of McDonald's, and other denizens of fast food outlets, appear to be very resistant to change.
MW
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 11, 2023 9:54:38 GMT
Still a lot of lead pipes in houses round here, McDonalds etc are a blight, on a Sunday when I drive home from my partners I see Mcdonalds and KFC boxes just thrown onto the road.
McDonalds were very resistant to closing during Covid, and when they reopened despite the rule being "necessary journeys only" the local ones all had cars full of youngsters queueing, so much so that at one point in Cardiff the queue was over 90 minutes.
But I think is also a climate thing, getting in your car and driving to pick up a burger has to be worse for the environment than cooking a burger at home. and chucking the remains out of your car windows is definitely worse than recycling.
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Post by martin44 on Aug 13, 2023 20:01:06 GMT
do some research on smart meters ... they are not installed meters, the vast majority are internet activated meters, connected to your supplier... of course they are installed meters, they are on the wall in your house, thus installed. they are not on the INTERNET if they were it would be much easier to get at the data. The data is transmitted .and can be pulled by the DCC so the gas and electricity meters talk to the comms hubm it encrypts the data and sends messages to the DCC ( and also in clear to your IHD) the DCC sends the data after de-encryption to the DNO and your supplier. The system used is entirely separate from the interne you say tomayto i say tomoto. "odafone has signed a services agreement to provide 4G connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network. The partnership between Vodafone and DCC, the Data Communications Company, is an agreement for up to 15 years to build and operate 4G managed IoT connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network, which already securely connects more than half of homes to energy suppliers and operators and is managed and run by DCC." IOT.... "THE INTERNET OF THINGS"
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eeyore
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Post by eeyore on Aug 14, 2023 9:24:03 GMT
of course they are installed meters, they are on the wall in your house, thus installed. they are not on the INTERNET if they were it would be much easier to get at the data. The data is transmitted .and can be pulled by the DCC so the gas and electricity meters talk to the comms hubm it encrypts the data and sends messages to the DCC ( and also in clear to your IHD) the DCC sends the data after de-encryption to the DNO and your supplier. The system used is entirely separate from the interne you say tomayto i say tomoto. "odafone has signed a services agreement to provide 4G connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network. The partnership between Vodafone and DCC, the Data Communications Company, is an agreement for up to 15 years to build and operate 4G managed IoT connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network, which already securely connects more than half of homes to energy suppliers and operators and is managed and run by DCC." IOT.... "THE INTERNET OF THINGS" Errrmmm, not quite.... "IoT" (internet-of-things) is a jargon term with the same level of reality as "dot-com" and "Web 2.0" - it means whatever you want it to mean. Read what Vodafone actually says: " 4G managed IoT connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network". That means it uses Vodaphone's 4G network to communicate to each smart meter - wouldn't it would be more accurate to claim that smart meters are on the mobilephone network? I see no indication that smart meters will be addressed as nodes with their own unique dotted-quad IP address on the Internet, any more than that they might have a phone number which you could dial and talk to... Anyway, since when did press releases carry any weight in a debate about technical issues?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 14, 2023 10:00:55 GMT
Exactly, if meters were on the internet per se, then hackers would be putting a lot of effort into hacking them.
Can you imagine the havoc they could cause with control of the remote kill switch. Turn off millions of electric meters just as coronation street starts, or on the coldest day of the year.
actually were they really on the internet then a DOS attack on the nodes, would be pretty effective, so you take that portion of the internet down and people with keys can top up but as the meters not communicating then the electric won't come on
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Post by mostlywrong on Aug 14, 2023 10:26:26 GMT
of course they are installed meters, they are on the wall in your house, thus installed. they are not on the INTERNET if they were it would be much easier to get at the data. The data is transmitted .and can be pulled by the DCC so the gas and electricity meters talk to the comms hubm it encrypts the data and sends messages to the DCC ( and also in clear to your IHD) the DCC sends the data after de-encryption to the DNO and your supplier. The system used is entirely separate from the interne you say tomayto i say tomoto. "odafone has signed a services agreement to provide 4G connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network. The partnership between Vodafone and DCC, the Data Communications Company, is an agreement for up to 15 years to build and operate 4G managed IoT connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network, which already securely connects more than half of homes to energy suppliers and operators and is managed and run by DCC." IOT.... "THE INTERNET OF THINGS" Careful, Boys and Girls.
That link took me to a crypto website - not Vodafone's website.
MW
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 14, 2023 10:38:20 GMT
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Post by martin44 on Aug 22, 2023 19:13:59 GMT
www.vodafone.co.uk/newscentre/press-release/dcc-4g-upgrade-britain-smart-meter-systemyou say tomayto i say tomoto. "odafone has signed a services agreement to provide 4G connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network. The partnership between Vodafone and DCC, the Data Communications Company, is an agreement for up to 15 years to build and operate 4G managed IoT connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network, which already securely connects more than half of homes to energy suppliers and operators and is managed and run by DCC." IOT.... "THE INTERNET OF THINGS" Errrmmm, not quite.... "IoT" (internet-of-things) is a jargon term with the same level of reality as "dot-com" and "Web 2.0" - it means whatever you want it to mean. Read what Vodafone actually says: " 4G managed IoT connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network". That means it uses Vodaphone's 4G network to communicate to each smart meter - wouldn't it would be more accurate to claim that smart meters are on the mobilephone network? I see no indication that smart meters will be addressed as nodes with their own unique dotted-quad IP address on the Internet, any more than that they might have a phone number which you could dial and talk to... Anyway, since when did press releases carry any weight in a debate about technical issues? Course it is.
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Post by martin44 on Aug 22, 2023 19:15:53 GMT
www.vodafone.co.uk/newscentre/press-release/dcc-4g-upgrade-britain-smart-meter-systemyou say tomayto i say tomoto. "odafone has signed a services agreement to provide 4G connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network. The partnership between Vodafone and DCC, the Data Communications Company, is an agreement for up to 15 years to build and operate 4G managed IoT connectivity for Britain’s smart meter network, which already securely connects more than half of homes to energy suppliers and operators and is managed and run by DCC." IOT.... "THE INTERNET OF THINGS" Careful, Boys and Girls.
That link took me to a crypto website - not Vodafone's website.
MW
still goes to vodafone for me.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 24, 2023 17:04:09 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 24, 2023 17:18:23 GMT
Or, just perhaps, the actual story there is that the Antarctic ice shelf is breaking up at an unprecedented rate, with catastrophic effects on wildlife? "More than 90% of emperor penguin colonies are predicted to be all but extinct by the end of the century, as the continent's seasonal sea-ice withers in an ever-warming world."
"What we're seeing right now is so far outside what we've observed previously. We expected change but I don't think we expected so much change so rapidly"
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 24, 2023 19:45:59 GMT
I tried briefly and failed to get hold of any raw data worth looking at so I certainly shan't be looking at some nonsense graph like that. I mean what is it trying to say? Everything was completely normal up until 2022 ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 24, 2023 20:49:13 GMT
I tried briefly and failed to get hold of any raw data worth looking at so I certainly shan't be looking at some nonsense graph like that. I mean what is it trying to say? Everything was completely normal up until 2022 ? Well its hardly a 'nonsense graph' just because you don't understand it. The clear implication is that 2022 is one of those grey lines. It highlights how 'abnormal' 2023 is within the dataset, and how rapid that change has been. Which of course is precisely what has been said in the various articles it has been published in. If you really want to see 2022, I guess you could look at this variant of the graph, which explicitely calls out 2022: Antartic Sea Ice Extent
Attribution to this article: national Snow and Ice Data CentreWhich you might find interesting, or you might just prefer to dismiss as more "scaremongering" by penguin loving liberal propogandists.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 24, 2023 22:05:22 GMT
I tried briefly and failed to get hold of any raw data worth looking at so I certainly shan't be looking at some nonsense graph like that. I mean what is it trying to say? Everything was completely normal up until 2022 ? Well its hardly a 'nonsense graph' just because you don't understand it. The clear implication is that 2022 is one of those grey lines. It highlights how 'abnormal' 2023 is within the dataset, and how rapid that change has been. Which of course is precisely what has been said in the various articles it has been published in. If you really want to see 2022, I guess you could look at this variant of the graph, which explicitely calls out 2022: Antartic Sea Ice Extent
Attribution to this article: national Snow and Ice Data CentreWhich you might find interesting, or you might just prefer to dismiss as more "scaremongering" by penguin loving liberal propogandists. Ha! If you don't know how to debate someone tell them they don't understand. Even if I was on your collective sides I would not be using a graph like that. It is showing all recent years up to and including 2022 to be broadly the same and then a big jump to badness in 2023. Surely what you want to show is a gradual, albeit with considerable variance, path downwards over many decades?
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