IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on May 29, 2019 10:45:03 GMT
I'd like to see a counter claim against the Government's assertions that Leaving was going to cost every family in the UK £500 pa or some-such, and gradually escalated as they got increasingly panicky to costing £5,000 per week or some similar stupidity. I use hyperbole for effect of course. Oh, and Tax payers money was used to fund it. I have said before and we all know, both sides lied shamefully. It's called politics. But some politicians are more shameful than others
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Post by captainconfident on May 29, 2019 10:56:12 GMT
I'd like to see a counter claim against the Government's assertions that Leaving was going to cost every family in the UK £500 pa or some-such, and gradually escalated as they got increasingly panicky to costing £5,000 per week or some similar stupidity. I use hyperbole for effect of course. Oh, and Tax payers money was used to fund it. I have said before and we all know, both sides lied shamefully. It's called politics. But some politicians are more shameful than others I offer this evidence:- www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36352676/penny-mordaunt-the-uk-can-t-veto-turkey-joining-eu
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on May 29, 2019 11:09:09 GMT
It's all brought together politically by The King, who is known as "The only Belgian". He will nominate some capable person to get a coalition together, and if that fails, choose someone else. But the National government had very restricted areas of power (defence, foreign affairs), which is why the country can last so long without a government. Below the National are the Flemish and Wallonian governments, which do budgetary stuff. Then (unfortunately there is more) there are the Provincial Governments. And below that the Local Councils. This is where I began to choke on my cornflakes because this country takes decentralisation to a ludicrous extent, given there are only a few million people here. The whole pyramid probably costs more than the whole of the German Governmental structure yet the country is smaller than most German states. And taxes are bl**dy high partly to fund all the civil servants, expense accounts and free cars of these redundant timeservers. Grrrr. Anyway, that's as much as you need to know about Belgium so I won't go on about it anymore. Jeez!! I never knew Elvis was Belgian, never mind the only Belgian!!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 29, 2019 11:16:12 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on May 29, 2019 11:59:32 GMT
Aw stop stirring, adrianc. All roads to Brexit now have a roadblock in front of them. No Tory PM can carry it off in the face of Parliament and public opinion. So let's just watch and enjoy the implosion of the "Oldest political party". Nobody seems capable of standing up and making a coherent case for leaving the EU without a deal which is still an attractive proposition enough to persuade a majority. So there is no way now to bring public opinion back onside. Therefore it is time to be less antagonistic to Leave believers
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 29, 2019 12:56:21 GMT
All roads to Brexit now have a roadblock in front of them. It was always there. It's just becoming more obvious to more people, now that we're closer to it. ...and their main rivals. But I don't really do schadenfreude. Indeed. Because most people recognise that not only is alienating the neighbours and our closest trading partners economically suicidal, but are increasingly looking hard at the calibre of politician shouting loudly in favour of it. A carefully manufactured false "man of the people" front is not enough to hide the true sources of the money and power for ever. Show the reality behind the fictions, and the cracks in that front, and change minds. Well, the ones that are open to being changed... I have good friends who are still fairly hardcore leavers... Just three of them: Somebody or around 30, with an antipodean colleague having visa issues, who absolutely supports free movement of people but doesn't think it fair EU citizens should get it while commonwealth don't - free movement should apply to everybody from the Commonwealth, too - but didn't seem to wrap his head around it always having been the UK gov'ts 100% responsibility and policy - and who started to shuffle his feet a bit when it was pointed out that the Commonwealth was the remnants of the Empire and colonialisation, forming an entire third of extant humanity, many of whom were in countries which would empty rapidly given the wealth disparities between there and here... A self-employed consultant in his late 60s who would love to retire but can't, due to multiple children to fund through Uni (all of whom are staunch remainers - with an option of EU nationality through family heritage), who specialises in intra-EU tax policies and movements, and is glad EU tax law is complex, but thinks it should be unified. And then there's a retired surgeon and magistrate in his 70s, of somewhat florid complexion, who keeps going straight back to how this country never got over "the disaster of decimalisation"... All have long been staunch Tories of Thatcherite bent, takers of the Daily Telegraph at absolute face value, and all have many friends who have taken advantage of freedom of movement to move home and work within the EU, both to and from the UK.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on May 29, 2019 13:18:13 GMT
Boris's case just moaners causing trouble. It won't get anywhere near a full court case. In the unlikely event it did they will run out of money in a couple of days with QC. As we know about statistics and numbers. (look at P2P Valuations) there can be wide variation.
If Boris believed the figures it is just a difference of opinion. EVERY builder,Plumber,car mechanic that gave you a figure for the cost of a job then charged more would be off to Jail.
BREXIT WITH NO DEAL WILL HAPPEN. The EU will get fed up and by October/November they will have all the plans they need to minimise damage and will pull the plug..
The same probably for UK since >90% of business has no direct involvement with EU and it accounts for 12% of trade.
The other areas will quickly re-establish working relationships.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 29, 2019 13:34:11 GMT
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 29, 2019 13:44:27 GMT
Boris's case just moaners causing trouble. It won't get anywhere near a full court case. In the unlikely event it did they will run out of money in a couple of days with QC. As we know about statistics and numbers. (look at P2P Valuations) there can be wide variation.
If Boris believed the figures it is just a difference of opinion. EVERY builder,Plumber,car mechanic that gave you a figure for the cost of a job then charged more would be off to Jail.
BREXIT WITH NO DEAL WILL HAPPEN. The EU will get fed up and by October/November they will have all the plans they need to minimise damage and will pull the plug..
The same probably for UK since >90% of business has no direct involvement with EU and it accounts for 12% of trade.
The other areas will quickly re-establish working relationships.
"Boris didn't lie - but even if he did, harassing Brexiteers through the courts is outrageous" article in the Telegraph here
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on May 29, 2019 14:08:10 GMT
Yes of Exports most trading is within the UK . 12% of GDP . We won't stop trading with EU
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on May 29, 2019 14:08:38 GMT
This takes our erstwhile democratic constitution to a new low.
Every election has all sorts of misrepresentation and spin from all sides. That referendum had countless public figures telling us what would happen if we didn't fall into line. Do I think they should be threatened with a criminal offense and possibly even prison? Of course not. Such activity is the kind of thing you'd expect from some smaller developing nations and dictatorships but not of the UK. I despair I really do.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 29, 2019 14:30:11 GMT
We won't stop trading with EU No, but the amount of trade will plummet rapidly, as existing supply contracts run out and don't get renewed. For any EU27 country importing or exporting widgets, they will still have 26 countries to import from or export to within the single market. Only 1 has changed status. Or, to look at it another way, their domestic single market only shrinks from 515m population to 450m and $19tn GDP to $16tn GDP. Then there's all the world markets that the EU has trade deals with - the UK will be walking away from those, too. Meanwhile, a post-No-Deal UK will be on WTO default terms with every single country in the world - including all the EU27. The UK will go overnight from being a massively cheap and easy trading partner for the EU27, and a nicely affordable and straightforward one for all those trade deal countries, to one of the hardest and most expensive ones.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on May 29, 2019 14:38:19 GMT
We won't stop trading with EU No, but the amount of trade will plummet rapidly, as existing supply contracts run out and don't get renewed. For any EU27 country importing or exporting widgets, they will still have 26 countries to import from or export to within the single market. Only 1 has changed status. Or, to look at it another way, their domestic single market only shrinks from 515m population to 450m and $19tn GDP to $16tn GDP. Then there's all the world markets that the EU has trade deals with - the UK will be walking away from those, too. Meanwhile, a post-No-Deal UK will be on WTO default terms with every single country in the world - including all the EU27. The UK will go overnight from being a massively cheap and easy trading partner for the EU27, and a nicely affordable and straightforward one for all those trade deal countries, to one of the hardest and most expensive ones. There is no need to Trade at the Default WTO worst terms as given by the remainers we can still trade with ZERO tarriffs (WTO Article 24). It is like the dreaded Irish border nobody will put the infrastructure in as nobody wants it.
No Country in the world trades on exclusive WTO default terms they are the trading backstop nobody wants them so agree better terms. There will be consequences to both sides which will be resolved quickly as both are preparing. When legal restrictions on making deals are lifted these plans will be put into action ASAP
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 29, 2019 14:42:52 GMT
This takes our erstwhile democratic constitution to a new low. Every election has all sorts of misrepresentation and spin from all sides. That referendum had countless public figures telling us what would happen if we didn't fall into line. Do I think they should be threatened with a criminal offense and possibly even prison? Of course not. Such activity is the kind of thing you'd expect from some smaller developing nations and dictatorships but not of the UK. I despair I really do. So are there no lows that should be prosecuted? The charge is three counts of "misconduct in a public office" - two offices across the three charges, Mayor of London and Member of Parliament, and on two occasions across the three charges, the run up to the referendum and the run up to the 2017 election. Can those three counts be proven beyond reasonable doubt? If not, he's not getting convicted of anything - and will walk away from the court an exonerated man in the eyes of the law. www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/misconduct-public-officeAll that's just happened is that a district judge has agreed that the charges appear to be valid in law, with no judgement being taken on their merits. Here's the full judgement from today... www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Ball-v-Johnson-FV-290519.pdf
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 29, 2019 14:44:11 GMT
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