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Stocks
Jul 14, 2020 22:21:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 22:21:01 GMT
Surely the point is only a few index trackers beat 95% of all funds and only a few funds beat 95% of all trackers.
The reason situation seems odd is there are far more funds than trackers.
Like wallstreet my fund selection is significantly better than all the trackers I can see and they are easy to find. So why would you accept sub-optimal performance?
My other concern with trackers is their bounce back from crashes is poor. Most of my funds came back very strongly after the virus crash...
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cwah
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Jul 15, 2020 0:28:43 GMT
Post by cwah on Jul 15, 2020 0:28:43 GMT
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Stocks
Jul 15, 2020 8:40:50 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 8:40:50 GMT
It is vital with Funds or Trackers to make sure you are not just making the same bet over and over again. There is a big world out there but then you have to take out the no-hope investments like Russia, India, South America etc where accounting standards are non existant or corruption is rampant. It is too easy to end up with some mass of AMZN stuck on your foot :-)
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sd2
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Jul 15, 2020 9:02:37 GMT
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Post by sd2 on Jul 15, 2020 9:02:37 GMT
[/quote] The main difference with Tesla even as a car company is his huge moat: - giga factory allowing to reduce cost of battery - vertically integrated production cost from the material to part to assembly all by the same company to reduce cost - no use of dealership which reduce cost - Pure player in electric so lower production cost than other car manufacturer - huge publicity by social media so they don't do any marketing campaign and lower cost as well - integration with solar city for power delivery and charging at home - automated driving via IA and update on the cloud
This is the sort of moat that only Apple, Google or Amazon have by having an entire eco-system locking people in.
It looks like more and more people are buying electric and it also seem they are going to remain the number 1 in the foreseable future.
So that's a good bet somehow. I'd have put way more if the car price were lower but for now they still target the premium range[/quote]
I really can't see how an electric car company can have a most. Virtually all car manufacturers are making electric cars AND lots of new companies starting up as in Dyson. Moreover we are talking valuation.
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cwah
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Jul 15, 2020 9:34:08 GMT
Post by cwah on Jul 15, 2020 9:34:08 GMT
I can tell you what's so hard... it's to sell electric car at low enough price to get adoption while making profit! So far everyone failed. May automotive sellers do one of these: - Nice concept car that are inaffordable - Cut on essential cost such as range to decrease cost (eg. Nissan leaf) so leading to limited adoption - And some such as Nio get goverment support So this ability to have 20% profit margin on a Tesla 3 around $35k mark hasn't been achieved anywhere yet. People say the main barrier to electric car adoption is range, but the truth is that most electric car have limited range due to battery cost. With big enough battery it has similar range to petrol car.
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cwah
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Jul 15, 2020 9:37:24 GMT
Post by cwah on Jul 15, 2020 9:37:24 GMT
It is vital with Funds or Trackers to make sure you are not just making the same bet over and over again. There is a big world out there but then you have to take out the no-hope investments like Russia, India, South America etc where accounting standards are non existant or corruption is rampant. It is too easy to end up with some mass of AMZN stuck on your foot :-) I just bought more of Amazon and Facebook. I wished I did that earlier. Why try your luck to potentially beat the index when you can just buy the winner and see your pot gets bigger?
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Stocks
Jul 15, 2020 9:53:30 GMT
Post by bracknellboy on Jul 15, 2020 9:53:30 GMT
Electrification has absolutely reduced the barrier to entry. However, you cite an interesting example, given that Dyson worked for la ong time behind the scenes on this, eventually made a big fan fare of their (his) plans, put in masses of investment, before deciding to kill the project because they couldn't build it at a viable price.
I suggest that example demonstrates very well that while new entry into auto is easier, it still comes with considerable barriers. And that is likely to get harder for at least a while. Electrification has reduced some of the platform complexities (while bringing in some others), but ADAS and move to autonomous will bring in new ones
No that doesn't have any particular bearing on whether Tesla currently has the right valuation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 11:29:05 GMT
It is vital with Funds or Trackers to make sure you are not just making the same bet over and over again. There is a big world out there but then you have to take out the no-hope investments like Russia, India, South America etc where accounting standards are non existant or corruption is rampant. It is too easy to end up with some mass of AMZN stuck on your foot :-) I just bought more of Amazon and Facebook. I wished I did that earlier. Why try your luck to potentially beat the index when you can just buy the winner and see your pot gets bigger? Absolutely, a big fan of US IT and AMZN, but if you also buy SMT and Fidelity Tech Stock Fund you get AMZN with all three. The issue with all of these decisions is choosing the right one, be it tracker, share or Fund.
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Stocks
Jul 15, 2020 12:19:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 12:19:00 GMT
March was a buyers dream time.......
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cwah
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Jul 15, 2020 12:32:52 GMT
Post by cwah on Jul 15, 2020 12:32:52 GMT
I just bought more of Amazon and Facebook. I wished I did that earlier. Why try your luck to potentially beat the index when you can just buy the winner and see your pot gets bigger?
Nothing wrong with a bit of momentum following. Whether the best way to do that is "buy the winner" a.k.a. jumping on the crowded trade bandwagon is another matter.
You could have at least "bought more of Amazon and Facebook" back in the dark days of March rather than now. On march I only bought a small chunck of stock. And let's be honest, whatever stock I bought they all turned positive and many gave double digit return. So it didn't matter whether I'd have chosen Amazon or any airline stock. Too bad I only put a toe into it. My philosophy was to put few % of my portfolio every time there was a dip. Needless to say, there wasn't many dip and I barely earned a quarter of what I should have
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slippery
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Post by slippery on Jul 15, 2020 13:49:25 GMT
Re Wallstreet's comment, "However if your defintion is achieving an average return in return for being able to be lazy and put de-minimis effort into your porfolio management, then sure." Then there's those like me who are a bit lazy but more importantly don't have the brainpower But thanks for all the stock discussions on the chat forums, which prompted me to set up online trading in funds & ETFs so I happened to be ready to slide into the water in March. Started a tad early, but very happy overall so far. I did already have a small portfolio of UK stocks which I purchased a while ago just for long-term income. Thankfully the Astrazeneca helped make up for the Carillion (yes, "too big to fail" shouldn't have been my mantra on that one!). Earlier this month sold off a biotech fund which I purchased by cheque and application form when it launched back in 2001. Remember those days?! So much more fun now.
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cwah
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Jul 15, 2020 14:25:02 GMT
Post by cwah on Jul 15, 2020 14:25:02 GMT
Re Wallstreet's comment, "However if your defintion is achieving an average return in return for being able to be lazy and put de-minimis effort into your porfolio management, then sure." Then there's those like me who are a bit lazy but more importantly don't have the brainpower But thanks for all the stock discussions on the chat forums, which prompted me to set up online trading in funds & ETFs so I happened to be ready to slide into the water in March. Started a tad early, but very happy overall so far. I did already have a small portfolio of UK stocks which I purchased a while ago just for long-term income. Thankfully the Astrazeneca helped make up for the Carillion (yes, "too big to fail" shouldn't have been my mantra on that one!). Earlier this month sold off a biotech fund which I purchased by cheque and application form when it launched back in 2001. Remember those days?! So much more fun now. When thinking about it, it's so much more fun to by stock than to wait for Lendy or FundingSecure updates I wish I started stock earlier, I really started to invest only few months ago...
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Post by Ace on Jul 15, 2020 14:36:19 GMT
Re Wallstreet's comment, "However if your defintion is achieving an average return in return for being able to be lazy and put de-minimis effort into your porfolio management, then sure." Then there's those like me who are a bit lazy but more importantly don't have the brainpower But thanks for all the stock discussions on the chat forums, which prompted me to set up online trading in funds & ETFs so I happened to be ready to slide into the water in March. Started a tad early, but very happy overall so far. I did already have a small portfolio of UK stocks which I purchased a while ago just for long-term income. Thankfully the Astrazeneca helped make up for the Carillion (yes, "too big to fail" shouldn't have been my mantra on that one!). Earlier this month sold off a biotech fund which I purchased by cheque and application form when it launched back in 2001. Remember those days?! So much more fun now. When thinking about it, it's so much more fun to by stock than to wait for Lendy or FundingSecure updates I wish I started stock earlier, I really started to invest only few months ago... cwah, I do admire your optimism and enthusiasm, but if there was ever anyone more suited to global trackers... 😄 I look forward to your future posts on the next surefire investments. The very best or luck to you.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jul 15, 2020 20:08:13 GMT
cwah , I do admire your optimism and enthusiasm
OMG Ace ! You've just reminded me cwah is the one who was famously investing in Thomas Cook shortly before its demise, and before that buying shares in some obscure bank in some godforsaken country. Yeah TC was a mistake and I lost quite a bit of money in it. But Bank of Georgia wasn't. I had a 15% return and it completely erased my TC losses and still made additional gains. I wish I bought more actually! I got lucky by selling everything 1 month before the crash. I thought I made a big mistake at some stage because I kept seeing all stock getting higher and higher! But ultimately it was the right choice and no one can time the market
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 15, 2020 21:06:32 GMT
OMG Ace ! You've just reminded me cwah is the one who was famously investing in Thomas Cook shortly before its demise, and before that buying shares in some obscure bank in some godforsaken country. Yeah TC was a mistake and I lost quite a bit of money in it. But Bank of Georgia wasn't. I had a 15% return and it completely erased my TC losses and still made additional gains. I wish I bought more actually! I got lucky by selling everything 1 month before the crash. I thought I made a big mistake at some stage because I kept seeing all stock getting higher and higher! But ultimately it was the right choice and no one can time the market “It was the right choice” - no “No one can time the market” - yes
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