ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Aug 4, 2016 15:12:44 GMT
Very strange doings on #174 in GBBA - in the last hour or so, I seem to have acquired another £30-odd in this loan, and now just received £133-odd in principal repayment. And yet today's email from AC, as of an hour ago, says trading is suspended - one assumes that the suspension only refers to MLIA activity then? But then GBBA *is* supposed to be a black box account I suppose, so maybe I shouldn't bother peeking under the lid ... Whats the timestamp on the purchase? Is it before the update? Principal repayment is obviously for the reason outlined in the update and wouldnt be affected by suspension.
|
|
happy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 397
Likes: 497
|
Post by happy on Aug 4, 2016 15:21:39 GMT
I also had GBBA purchases for #174 at 13:30 & 14:30 then got the capital repayment at 14:43. Perhaps someone found out about the "issues" a bit before AC officially suspended the loan and sold out in the MLIA causing the GBBA to buy up the parts. Not best pleased as it wiped out half of the capital repayment I received Edit: both the purcheses and the capital repayment predate the suspension and email (14:39 & 14:50 respectively)
|
|
dermot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 863
Likes: 517
|
Post by dermot on Aug 4, 2016 15:24:23 GMT
Two purchases: one at 12:36 and one at 13:33
Yes, I should have read *all* of the email then I'd have seen the rationale for the partial repayment.
Still seems to be a bit odd buying chunks when the enterprise is already known to be troubled ... in the same boat as happy - in that it seems to have eaten up 25% of the capital repayment.
And I'm not in my home timezone today - emails stamped at *my* local time, AC activity timestamped in London time - that explains my confusion .... well, that and last night's Tequila ...
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,878
Likes: 6,950
|
Post by duck on Aug 4, 2016 15:25:06 GMT
Very strange doings on #174 in GBBA - in the last hour or so, I seem to have acquired another £30-odd in this loan, and now just received £133-odd in principal repayment. And yet today's email from AC, as of an hour ago, says trading is suspended - one assumes that the suspension only refers to MLIA activity then? But then GBBA *is* supposed to be a black box account I suppose, so maybe I shouldn't bother peeking under the lid ... Yes my wife's account did the same @£30 timed at so before the update .... and then a £36 refund from the paying down after the update. My GBBA on the other hand bought @£30 and only returned @£8
|
|
jjc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 414
Likes: 632
|
Post by jjc on Aug 4, 2016 15:26:54 GMT
dermot, principal repayment will be the £129.5k development funding never drawn down, which AC have now repaid to lenders. If you got £133 that means you should have been holding c. £654 of 174 (getting back the 20.3% repaid). GBBA holders should have got this 20.3% back same as MLIA lenders. Not sure about the other £30 you say you picked up. Certainly shouldn’t be from MLIA investors if after 14.39. Maybe (mind slightly boggles) from QAA?
|
|
dermot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 863
Likes: 517
|
Post by dermot on Aug 4, 2016 15:30:07 GMT
I'm only in #174 in GBBA, so given the provision fund nature of the account, I suppose it is only of academic interest - except I could have done something a bit more creative with the rest of the repayment.
|
|
duck
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,878
Likes: 6,950
|
Post by duck on Aug 4, 2016 15:33:46 GMT
Considering how few people will have noticed these transactions so far (and it will also be limited to those that open the black box) it would be interesting to see how much of this loan was traded just before the update and where it came from .....
|
|
happy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 397
Likes: 497
|
Post by happy on Aug 4, 2016 15:36:54 GMT
Likewise, perhaps a comment from AC would be helpful
|
|
|
Post by pepperpot on Aug 4, 2016 16:14:43 GMT
Considering how few people will have noticed these transactions so far (and it will also be limited to those that open the black box) it would be interesting to see how much of this loan was traded just before the update and where it came from ..... I saw around £25k on the sm about noon-ish. edit, I only looked as I'd just picked up £58 at 11.45. So if £25k generated £30 bites at 12.36, it suggests the 11.45 'round' might have been double so potentially £75k in total.
|
|
happy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 397
Likes: 497
|
Post by happy on Aug 4, 2016 16:20:49 GMT
Considering how few people will have noticed these transactions so far (and it will also be limited to those that open the black box) it would be interesting to see how much of this loan was traded just before the update and where it came from ..... I saw around £25k on the sm about noon-ish. So somebody got wind of this ahead of time it seems and the GBBA participants get stuck with some more of a loan they would rather not have. Security looks ok though so no worries there but a shame we won't even benefit from the default interest in the GBBA, at 13% is it?
|
|
jjc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 414
Likes: 632
|
Post by jjc on Aug 4, 2016 17:16:52 GMT
I’m wondering if it was the QAA that sold units. My GBBA transactions show £3.19 was withdrawn from QAA & invested it into 174 at 12.36. My QAA however shows no transactions today. Which I think means that the £3.19 was taken from cash held within the QAA. My QAA holdings at 12.36 were about £957. So it seems 0.333% of my QAA holdings were used for this purpose. If that was the case for everyone (easy to verify if someone else checks their records) & bearing in mind Total QAA holdings (a few mins ago) were £16.433m (& 30D £13.665m hence total of this shared pot AWUI = £30.098m). it suggests 0.0333% of the Total QAA pot was used for this purpose ie c. £55k (or if of the full shared pot £100k). which chimes in with pepperpot’s view of things. ie QAA sold £50-100k of 174, which was taken up by GBBA (& presumably MLIA) lenders before the loan was suspended. Not sure these calcs & thinking are correct but if they are it would suggest the transactions were made to protect QAA from having £55-100k liquidity locked up in a distressed loan. That arguably might be ok in the investment account logic scheme of things (QAA is designed to offer more rapid access than GBBA, which is also PF protected), but raises an eyebrow as to MLIA lenders potentially taking the hit. And hence investment accounts “seeking alpha” to the detriment of MLIA holders?
|
|
happy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 397
Likes: 497
|
Post by happy on Aug 4, 2016 17:36:03 GMT
Perhaps not! it looks to me like your GBBA had uninvested cash and just made a purchase of #174 off the market and released some swept funds from the QAA to facilitate the purchase. This would be consistent with GBBA transactions you describe with nothing showing on the QAA.
This does not mean that the initial sale that put the units on the market did not come from the QAA/30D (or a MLIA investor) but I don't think your evidence proves that it did come from the QAA.
Edit: also the QAA/30D accounts have PF protection as well so it would make little difference if the loan units sat in QA ot GBBA
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,044
Likes: 4,437
|
Post by agent69 on Aug 4, 2016 18:11:11 GMT
Got rid of my MLIA exposure to 174 a while ago, but like many others my GBBA account has picked some up just before the sticky brown stuff hit the fan. Clearly somebody had advance notice of what was going on.
Would be very concerning if the QAA was ditching this just before it was suspended
|
|
jjc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 414
Likes: 632
|
Post by jjc on Aug 4, 2016 22:13:30 GMT
Fraid not happy. My GBBA had no uninvested cash. Btw I’m not saying I’m certain I have proof about anything (& indeed may be mistaken). As mentioned my concern is more for MLIA investors (which, bar a token marker, I am no longer on this loan - so have nothing to gain) on this or any other deal. Offloading from QAA to GBBA I personally consider less of an issue as both have PF’s (though a GBBA investor may prefer his money not to be invested in loans just as they go wobbly!), but QAA (or any IA) offloads to MLIA does raise questions. Also as to the how & who by levers can be pulled. We have in the past been told that the IA’s were fully automated algorithms with no outside interventions possible. I hope that’s the case, but am struggling to see it. chris presumably can explain. Edit: also the QAA/30D accounts have PF protection as well so it would make little difference if the loan units sat in QA ot GBBA. On the losses yes but on the QAA’s liquidity it might. I’m actually surprised an outside intervention would have been made in this case, if it’s for £50-100k (then again it might be more, we don’t know) of a £30m pot.
|
|
bababill
Member of DD Central
Posts: 529
Likes: 245
|
Post by bababill on Aug 5, 2016 1:50:27 GMT
Reference loan 174. I note there was an update 10th of July on the activity tab. How does one keep abreast of these activity announcements? I am lending via the MLIA but I did not receive any email in July.
|
|