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Post by brianac on Jan 19, 2020 15:40:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 16:31:38 GMT
What I find frustrating is the number of opinions people pop up with which gives them the argument to continue to generate as much CO2 as they always have or more, against the advice of the vast majority ( in 10s of thousands) of world scientists. These scientists include those who were paid by the Koch brothers to "disprove" the theory and ended up agreeing with it.
Please stop making it up, do some serious research away from the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail. Face up to reality and start helping. The bailers are over there....
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 19, 2020 21:12:27 GMT
Oh God no. The BBC is boring enough as it is. Bring back Children's Hour with David Davis reading the Hobbit or The Midnight Folk (John Masefield for the uninitiated). Lets have some really goodstuff for change ( of climate).
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 20, 2020 12:28:56 GMT
What I find frustrating is the number of opinions people pop up with which gives them the argument to continue to generate as much CO2 as they always have or more, against the advice of the vast majority ( in 10s of thousands) of world scientists. These scientists include those who were paid by the Koch brothers to "disprove" the theory and ended up agreeing with it. Please stop making it up, do some serious research away from the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail. Face up to reality and start helping. The bailers are over there.... I was going to take issue at you lumping those two together but with the relentless coverage of the grandson to the queen in the DT I'm starting to see you have a point.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 20, 2020 13:36:53 GMT
What I find frustrating is the number of opinions people pop up with which gives them the argument to continue to generate as much CO2 as they always have or more, against the advice of the vast majority ( in 10s of thousands) of world scientists. These scientists include those who were paid by the Koch brothers to "disprove" the theory and ended up agreeing with it. Please stop making it up, do some serious research away from the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail. Face up to reality and start helping. The bailers are over there.... I was going to take issue at you lumping those two together but with the relentless coverage of the grandson to the queen in the DT I'm starting to see you have a point. I look forward to seeing how the papers handle it the next time the campaigning/educating BBC fly reporters to a third world country to interview ex-Prince Harry and Meagain who've flown in to explain to the natives - and us - that flying is bad for the planet.
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Happened to see a piece on the BBC1 lunchtime news today - link - about China's use of coal ("It currently uses about as much coal as the rest of the world put together", from linked article) and how they're opening a massive new coal mine.
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pip
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Post by pip on Jan 20, 2020 14:13:26 GMT
I was going to take issue at you lumping those two together but with the relentless coverage of the grandson to the queen in the DT I'm starting to see you have a point. I look forward to seeing how the papers handle it the next time the campaigning/educating BBC fly reporters to a third world country to interview ex-Prince Harry and Meagain who've flown in to explain to the natives - and us - that flying is bad for the planet.
--
Happened to see a piece on the BBC1 lunchtime news today - link - about China's use of coal ("It currently uses about as much coal as the rest of the world put together", from linked article) and how they're opening a massive new coal mine. I actually found when I was in China that they really do care about the environment and have a lot of technologies designed to reduce Co2 outputs. Clearly further work to be done, but I think this idea that China couldn't give a damn about how much they pollute is wrong. Yes a lot of this work is just ambition at present, in part due to the rapid growth of their economy and percentage of their economy in manufacturing, but give in 20 years time and I can see China leading the way in building sustainable cities and clean technologies. Also China adopted China first policies, decades before Trump thought of US first. This means that they will not damage their economies by implementing policies which would put the Chinese people at a disadvantage. In the UK we seem to have the opposite, yeah let's make our electricity 50% more than the rest of europe as it's the right thing to do, maybe others might follow our lead....All while the last few steel works shut up shop as it is too expensive to do business in the UK. Believe me there is money to be made in green technologies, but this won't be because they are 'green' but because they are the best technologies. Take cars, a few people may buy green cars because they are green, but if they are also cheaper, more reliable, safer, lower taxes and more fashionable hardly anybody will buy a petrol car.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 20, 2020 14:26:01 GMT
I look forward to seeing how the papers handle it the next time the campaigning/educating BBC fly reporters to a third world country to interview ex-Prince Harry and Meagain who've flown in to explain to the natives - and us - that flying is bad for the planet.
--
Happened to see a piece on the BBC1 lunchtime news today - link - about China's use of coal ("It currently uses about as much coal as the rest of the world put together", from linked article) and how they're opening a massive new coal mine. I actually found when I was in China that they really do care about the environment and have a lot of technologies designed to reduce Co2 outputs. Clearly further work to be done, but I think this idea that China couldn't give a damn about how much they pollute is wrong. Yes a lot of this work is just ambition at present, in part due to the rapid growth of their economy and percentage of their economy in manufacturing, but give in 20 years time and I can see China leading the way in building sustainable cities and clean technologies. Also China adopted China first policies, decades before Trump thought of US first. This means that they will not damage their economies by implementing policies which would put the Chinese people at a disadvantage. In the UK we seem to have the opposite, yeah let's make our electricity 50% more than the rest of europe as it's the right thing to do, maybe others might follow our lead....All while the last few steel works shut up shop as it is too expensive to do business in the UK. Believe me there is money to be made in green technologies, but this won't be because they are 'green' but because they are the best technologies. Take cars, a few people may buy green cars because they are green, but if they are also cheaper, more reliable, safer, lower taxes and more fashionable hardly anybody will buy a petrol car. BBC also reporting "Single-use plastic: China to ban bags and other items". One advantage of a single party state is you don't have to worry about what voters thinks when it comes to doing the right thing.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 20, 2020 16:47:56 GMT
In the UK we seem to have the opposite, yeah let's make our electricity 50% more than the rest of europe as it's the right thing to do, maybe others might follow our lead....All while the last few steel works shut up shop as it is too expensive to do business in the UK. Minor detail, ol' sausage... Now translate those into local incomes, for affordability. We're amongst the cheapest.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 20, 2020 23:24:15 GMT
One of the most remarkable aspects of the paleoclimate record is the strong correspondence between temperature and the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere observed during the glacial cycles of the past several hundred thousand years. When the carbon dioxide concentration goes up, temperature goes up. When the carbon dioxide concentration goes down, temperature goes down. A small part of the correspondence is due to the relationship between temperature and the solubility of carbon dioxide in the surface ocean, but the majority of the correspondence is consistent with a feedback between carbon dioxide and climate. These changes are expected if Earth is in radiative balance, and they are consistent with the role of greenhouse gases in climate change. While it might seem simple to determine cause and effect between carbon dioxide and climate from which change occurs first, or from some other means, the determination of cause and effect remains exceedingly difficult. Furthermore, other changes are involved in the glacial climate, including altered vegetation, land surface characteristics, and ice sheet extent.
Quote from your link, not to mention how did they measure temperature and carbon dioxide concentration? I assume inferred from other data since no one was there to measure them at the time, how accurate is this data? Did temperature go up and down with carbon dioxide or the other way around or did they both vary with something else? The recent data, which no one seems to put on the same graph or the same scale as the historic data seems to me to be quite a different correlation (less than 2 degrees for 100 bits change?). But we may also be in a global cooling due to variations in the sun (low sunspot activity?), which may be protecting us from the worst effects of global warming. Hope the Beeb cover all of this. "Hope the Beeb cover all of this".
Fat chance! If they were to cover the science properly, and air both sides of the argument, it could make for interesting viewing. In today's dumbed-down age where any televised interview has to be terminated within 30 seconds for fear of people switching off, it will more likely be BBC virtue signalling, cutting away to shots of ice sheets caving in, snippets of Saint Greta proselytising, shots of forest fires, but precious little science. Meanwhile China ploughs on burning a monstrous 50% of the entire planet's coal production and building coal-fired power stations at an alarming rate (equivalent to one coal plant per week). They won't stop until they're selling motorists in the West all their lithium batteries AND all the energy they need to operate them. I will continue to walk and cycle where I can...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 12:26:53 GMT
The one a week is just Daily Mail/DT nonsense but the actual figures are still pretty nasty
Using the analogy mentioned earlier we have to push back now to stop them bailing water in. I've certainly decided to reduce consumption of Chinese made goods.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 21, 2020 13:53:21 GMT
Using the analogy mentioned earlier we have to push back now to stop them bailing water in. I've certainly decided to reduce consumption of Chinese made goods.
Seems that the BBC's Chris Packham might have the answer - stop increasing the number of people in the lifeboat - "The big issue? Population control. And Packham’s mission, with a one-off BBC programme broadcast next week, is to make having children as uncool as eating meat or drinking from a disposable cup. If you do have to reproduce, please stick to one." ( here)
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 21, 2020 14:03:16 GMT
Using the analogy mentioned earlier we have to push back now to stop them bailing water in. I've certainly decided to reduce consumption of Chinese made goods.
Seems that the BBC's Chris Packham might have the answer - stop increasing the number of people in the lifeboat - "The big issue? Population control. And Packham’s mission, with a one-off BBC programme broadcast next week, is to make having children as uncool as eating meat or drinking from a disposable cup. If you do have to reproduce, please stick to one." ( here) Having children in the UK is already as difficult as it could be in a western democracy. Making people feel ashamed to have more? Utter madness.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 21, 2020 14:46:24 GMT
Having children in the UK is already as difficult as it could be in a western democracy. I thought pretty much the same process and practices, and therefore difficulty level, was required in all countries.
Anyway not really sure what basis that comment has in fact. Its certainly not borne out or grounded by comparative fertility rates across different countries. Yes we are lower than France (but then they have Bridget Bardot) and Sweden (they have mixed sex saunas), but considerably higher than the EU average (not of course that will matter soon), and equivalent with likes of Australia and the US, and considerably higher than the likes of Germany and Switzerland.
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daveb
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Post by daveb on Jan 21, 2020 15:20:11 GMT
I haven't recently researched and compared child benefit, maternity leave etc in the various countries of Europe, but believe I once saw something that showed family size related to those things more than anything else. It certainly was advanced as the reason for Italy's low birth rate.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 21, 2020 15:42:35 GMT
ONS shows higher 'total fertility rate' for England and Wales in 2017 (1.76) than in 1977 (1.66), though it had been higher most years between those 2 years.
Meanwhile, UK population estimates - again from the ONS - has gone from 55.9m in 1971 to 66.4m in 2018. Until the per-head-of-population CO2 emissions comes down, adding massively to the UK population doesn't seem to fit with a desire to get CO2 down.
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