baboonery
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Post by baboonery on Sept 7, 2020 10:55:51 GMT
Anybody else here been invited to take part in the Covid Survey? I did,this day receive a big pkt from HMG inviting the household to register. Each of us will be paid £450 in vouchers if we stick with it. 220.000 households are invited (Imagine how much this will cost?) A caseworker will visit (fully togged up in PC) and we will swab ourselves. One follow up a week for n number of months. (They wont come in .It happens on the doorstep,go figure). I'll keep you posted......Imagine a household of 10x £450? www.ons.gov.uk/surveys/informationforhouseholdsandindividuals/householdandindividualsurveys/covid19infectionsurveycisI formally signed up about a month ago after having got through very quickly on the contact number. The initial visit took about 30 mins and I have since had the first two follow up visits/tests. These each took about 5mins. I had to take the swabs myself and was slightly surprised at how little guidance was given other than to swab my throat before my nose. Fortunately I had previously had a test administered at one of the testing centres so was broadly aware of the procedure. I have not been advised of any results although they are supposed to be sent to my GP practice. I have not had any contact from the GP and so assume that the results are negative(!) although I could phone to ask if I wanted to. So far the ‘vouchers’ have been sent about 2 weeks after the visits; an online link to a site where the process of choosing/obtaining the vouchers is straightforward and with a fairly good range of retailers to choose from.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Sept 7, 2020 13:13:08 GMT
In short, China is reaping significant economic and social benefits from improvements in governance by strong central power and limited freedoms. Although China has not demonstrated eliminating the virus yet, but many parts of China including Hubei and Beijing are zero-covid. Looking at neighbouring Asian countries like Thailand, South Korea, and Singapore, they have taken serious measures to "control" the spread of COVID. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Koreavery different to the "Stay alert -> Control the virus -> Save lives" strategy. Knowing people from South Korea, then the drastic response was not lockdown, but how they track and trace - you have to give up any semblance of privacy that we in the West consider important - they will track your phone to see where you have been, track your bank account to see where you have spent money, make your details publicly available if you are suspected of having coronavirus exposure. Without any ability to opt out. So yes very different, but it just wouldn't be acceptable in the West. I watched this documentary about S.Korea's handling of it at the time (mid May) www.channel4.com/programmes/the-country-that-beat-the-virus and remember being quite struck by the reaction of population to the tracking programme; not desirable but a perfectly fair and necessary trade-off to save community lives and livelihoods. Definite impression that "if we do A, the government will (and be able to) utililize the data in a meaningful way and it will definitely lead to beneficial collective outcome B and that I care about a beneficial collective outcome not just about myself". Massive contrast with the UK on cultural, political and technological levels (in my opinion). In addition to being forced into it, of course!
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james100
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Post by james100 on Sept 7, 2020 13:28:33 GMT
This has been puzzling me recently: why is it that China has taken the direction it has to eliminate (zero-Covid if you like) the virus? Is it for one, or a combination of, the following: - Medical : not just those that die but the long term health of survivors (I assume they don't know anything we don't!) - Economic : lingering infections reduce consumption etc. - Political : just because they can, in contrast to the West where we can't eliminate the virus (with small exceptions) / a projection of power if you will (seen that footage of Wuhan pool parties) Why? Fear? Asymptomatics at 25-40% (don't ask me for links but IIRC the Italian figures I think you posted a while ago had 27% and I've seen other figures higher than that) is killing confidence in returning to economic normal. On one hand it's nice to think that if you get it there's a fair chance you won't even feel it; on the other the thought that a bunch of smiling assassins are wandering the streets isn't going to do much for the confidence of vulnerable demographics getting 'back to life'. And all of your list too. I am particularly interested in whether mild/asymptomatics develop long term health issues and how that can even be quantified / monitored.
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Post by dan1 on Sept 7, 2020 14:15:07 GMT
This has been puzzling me recently: why is it that China has taken the direction it has to eliminate (zero-Covid if you like) the virus? Is it for one, or a combination of, the following: - Medical : not just those that die but the long term health of survivors (I assume they don't know anything we don't!) - Economic : lingering infections reduce consumption etc. - Political : just because they can, in contrast to the West where we can't eliminate the virus (with small exceptions) / a projection of power if you will (seen that footage of Wuhan pool parties) Why? Fear? Asymptomatics at 25-40% (don't ask me for links but IIRC the Italian figures I think you posted a while ago had 27% and I've seen other figures higher than that) is killing confidence in returning to economic normal. On one hand it's nice to think that if you get it there's a fair chance you won't even feel it; on the other the thought that a bunch of smiling assassins are wandering the streets isn't going to do much for the confidence of vulnerable demographics getting 'back to life'. And all of your list too. I am particularly interested in whether mild/asymptomatics develop long term health issues and how that can even be quantified / monitored. I wonder if their strategy is indeed driven by fear. Not necessarily the health/economic fears but the fear of losing the degree of control they currently exercise over their population? We're witnessing a (minor?) degree of division in the West over letting the virus spread (aka herd immunity) vs tighter restrictions (closing pubs so schools can stay open brigade). That's obviously much more concerning to a regime like the CCP. Btw I expect the CCP would love Trump to get another term (as would Putin!). Agree with your other points.
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Post by dan1 on Sept 7, 2020 15:40:37 GMT
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Sept 7, 2020 15:45:46 GMT
Anybody else here been invited to take part in the Covid Survey? I did,this day receive a big pkt from HMG inviting the household to register. Each of us will be paid £450 in vouchers if we stick with it. 220.000 households are invited (Imagine how much this will cost?) A caseworker will visit (fully togged up in PC) and we will swab ourselves. One follow up a week for n number of months. (They wont come in .It happens on the doorstep,go figure). I'll keep you posted......Imagine a household of 10x £450? www.ons.gov.uk/surveys/informationforhouseholdsandindividuals/householdandindividualsurveys/covid19infectionsurveycisI formally signed up about a month ago after having got through very quickly on the contact number. The initial visit took about 30 mins and I have since had the first two follow up visits/tests. These each took about 5mins. I had to take the swabs myself and was slightly surprised at how little guidance was given other than to swab my throat before my nose. Fortunately I had previously had a test administered at one of the testing centres so was broadly aware of the procedure. I have not been advised of any results although they are supposed to be sent to my GP practice. I have not had any contact from the GP and so assume that the results are negative(!) although I could phone to ask if I wanted to. So far the ‘vouchers’ have been sent about 2 weeks after the visits; an online link to a site where the process of choosing/obtaining the vouchers is straightforward and with a fairly good range of retailers to choose from. Thanks for the info. I've registered but am still waiting for the appointment call. There does seem to be a good choice of vouchers. I don't think I'll be taking the charitable donation to the NHS route. The've squandered enough public money already.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 7, 2020 19:29:05 GMT
I formally signed up about a month ago after having got through very quickly on the contact number. The initial visit took about 30 mins and I have since had the first two follow up visits/tests. These each took about 5mins. I had to take the swabs myself and was slightly surprised at how little guidance was given other than to swab my throat before my nose. Fortunately I had previously had a test administered at one of the testing centres so was broadly aware of the procedure. I have not been advised of any results although they are supposed to be sent to my GP practice. I have not had any contact from the GP and so assume that the results are negative(!) although I could phone to ask if I wanted to. So far the ‘vouchers’ have been sent about 2 weeks after the visits; an online link to a site where the process of choosing/obtaining the vouchers is straightforward and with a fairly good range of retailers to choose from. Thanks for the info. I've registered but am still waiting for the appointment call. There does seem to be a good choice of vouchers. I don't think I'll be taking the charitable donation to the NHS route. The've squandered enough public money already. How? The government probably, but how the NHS?
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Sept 7, 2020 21:05:49 GMT
NHS Squandering: Where to begin.... waste: manpower,materials,food,prescriptions. Reason P=ss poor planning, oversight,corruption, management , negligence, graft.I could go on . Its a bottomless pit that we all shovel money into and no one can stop the roundabout.
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Post by dan1 on Sept 7, 2020 21:52:31 GMT
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Sept 7, 2020 22:21:30 GMT
I saw it too and was going to post it, but got distracted! Remember - IFR will vary by population; I don't know the age distribution and general health of this region of Brazil. Even so - I can't help feeling that IFRs will be end up being quite a bit lower than many people thought. 40% seroprevalance (assuming the test they used is accurate) is high - Ischgl rates.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Sept 7, 2020 22:29:29 GMT
It will almost certainly be just about as good as using venous blood. And the Roche test is good sensitivity/specificity. Best think about what you would do with knowledge of a positive test before you do it though. If I hadn't already had several PCR and one antibody test (all negative) I might be tempted. Got to do something with that money not spent at the pub (Although at £36 it is nearly 9 pints of beer there - per person).
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 8, 2020 7:29:47 GMT
.....it is nearly 9 pints of beer there - per person). Lightweight.
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Post by dan1 on Sept 8, 2020 8:20:02 GMT
It will almost certainly be just about as good as using venous blood. And the Roche test is good sensitivity/specificity. Best think about what you would do with knowledge of a positive test before you do it though. If I hadn't already had several PCR and one antibody test (all negative) I might be tempted. Got to do something with that money not spent at the pub (Although at £36 it is nearly 9 pints of beer there - per person). I've no interest myself. I endured four months of nothing but stinking colds from Nov-Feb followed by nothing other than hayfever with little high risk exposure to date. I have a lingering doubt regarding an acquaintance who came back from Italy (not Lombardia) late-Feb with a "cold", but I won't hold that against them Decent info on their site in contrast to the kits offered in May/June where they didn't even state whose kit they were flogging. I did wonder whether you could do group AB tests as per antigen? That's right, vampire your bubble, whizz together and hey presto you may save a bit more cash (or not if it comes back positive) <----- I say in jest, please please please do not do this!!!
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Post by dan1 on Sept 8, 2020 8:21:37 GMT
.....it is nearly 9 pints of beer there - per person). Lightweight. Even William Hague manages 14
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Sept 8, 2020 8:43:37 GMT
I'm unaffected personally, but baffled by this ongoing travel quarantine lottery. Several Greek islands are being added as of tomorrow morning, and yet Greece has had less than 300 cases in the last 2 days versus the UK's near 6,000. Meanwhile, Tinos and Serifos have been removed from the air corridor list but don't even have airports. Whilst I know there's some notional concept of cases per capita at work here, the net effect seems somewhat ridiculous in the context of spiralling UK cases. Surely at some point the airlines/holiday operators are going to have to throw the towel in w.r.t operating from the UK. Greece is lovely by the way I especially recommend the islands without an airport, they tend to be well worth the Piraeus ferry run.
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