Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 23, 2020 12:36:13 GMT
They'll all be holed up in Wetherspoons bemoaning the state of the world. Why would anybody sane refuse a vaccine? Vaccines normally take years to produce, these have taken months, something not right about the time frame. Profit before safety. Assuming the vaccine doesn't kill many/any people it's worth the risk of some unforeseen side effects for most people and particularly for those at high risk from Covid.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Nov 23, 2020 12:47:30 GMT
What will happen to those who refuse a vaccine? One thing for sure, I don't think any resources should be wasted on adults who don't want it. I am pro-vax in general but if people want to stick their heads down conspiracy rabbit holes then let them. There's also a strong argument for refusing NHS hospital bed care for anyone who's declined the vaccination which has been made available to them through (free) state health provision. Refuse to be vaccinated, pay for your own consequences IMO.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 23, 2020 12:50:13 GMT
There's also a strong argument for refusing NHS hospital bed care for anyone who's declined the vaccination which has been made available to them through (free) state health provision. Refuse to be vaccinated, pay for your own consequences IMO. While I broadly agree, that's a very slippery slope that leads to NHS care being refused for people injured partaking in sports activities, or for those with health issues arising from obesity/alcohol/smoking.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 23, 2020 12:51:10 GMT
What will happen to those who refuse a vaccine? I suspect that the overwhelming majority of older people will have the vaccine (not because they are high risk, but because they're high intelligence), whereas younger people may be more reluctant (either because they are low risk or they have been brainwashed by the nonsense spread on social media).
In an idea scenario anyone who contracts the virus having refused the vaccine should pay for their own medical treatment.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 23, 2020 12:53:59 GMT
They'll all be holed up in Wetherspoons bemoaning the state of the world. Why would anybody sane refuse a vaccine? Vaccines normally take years to produce, these have taken months, something not right about the time frame. Profit before safety.Bang on. Particularly the AZN/oxf one which they are making available at cost.
obviously can't be anything to do with the world's dash to find a way of preventing a devastating novel disease.
All terribly fishy.
Now, where's that roll of tin foil I stockpiled for just such an occasion ?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 23, 2020 12:58:58 GMT
There's also a strong argument for refusing NHS hospital bed care for anyone who's declined the vaccination which has been made available to them through (free) state health provision. Refuse to be vaccinated, pay for your own consequences IMO. While I broadly agree, that's a very slippery slope that leads to NHS care being refused for people injured partaking in sports activities, or for those with health issues arising from obesity/alcohol/smoking. I think the big difference is that if I indulge to excess in drinking, smoking or eating I am only going to kill myself. If I refuse the vaccine I risk spreading the virus and killing lots of other people
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 23, 2020 13:21:04 GMT
While I broadly agree, that's a very slippery slope that leads to NHS care being refused for people injured partaking in sports activities, or for those with health issues arising from obesity/alcohol/smoking. I think the big difference is that if I indulge to excess in drinking, smoking or eating I am only going to kill myself. If I refuse the vaccine I risk spreading the virus and killing lots of other people Umm, smoking?
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 23, 2020 13:34:07 GMT
While I broadly agree, that's a very slippery slope that leads to NHS care being refused for people injured partaking in sports activities, or for those with health issues arising from obesity/alcohol/smoking. I think the big difference is that if I indulge to excess in drinking, smoking or eating I am only going to kill myself. If I refuse the vaccine I risk spreading the virus and killing lots of other people Another difference of course is that in the case of those who smoke/drink, they will have also contributed a large amount in directly taxes over the years.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Nov 23, 2020 13:56:53 GMT
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Post by stevepn on Nov 23, 2020 14:41:38 GMT
While I broadly agree, that's a very slippery slope that leads to NHS care being refused for people injured partaking in sports activities, or for those with health issues arising from obesity/alcohol/smoking. I think the big difference is that if I indulge to excess in drinking, smoking or eating I am only going to kill myself. If I refuse the vaccine I risk spreading the virus and killing lots of other people Having the vaccine doesn't stop you spreading the virus and killing lots of people.
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Post by dan1 on Nov 23, 2020 14:52:42 GMT
I'm excited by the news on vaccine efficacy. However, I don't think any rollout should be mandatory. Neither do I approve of witholding/deprioritising treatment from those who choose not to be vaccinated. I can't imagine what it's like to be working in a Covid +ve ICU at the present time and tasking them with the role as ethics gatekeepers just seems abhorrent to me.
I guess I'm ok with requiring vaccination for certain activites that put others at greater risk (flying being the obvious one but any situation where people congregate in confined spaces). I guess we'll be looking at a Yellow Fever type requirement for most countries if vaccines are as good as we hope.
As part of economic stimulus why not incentivise vaccine uptake? Offer each individual, say, £1k to have the vaccine to get vaccination rates up and cash back into the economy. I'm not sure it fits in the UK with stimulus aimed primarily at businesses and asset holders rather than individuals.
Above all I want to see a two pronged campaign to, firstly, improve education surrounding the pandemic, and secondly to fight misinformation on social media and perhaps even the press. I see a huge missed opportunity in the govt press conferences and I'd like to see 10 mins dedicated simply to non-biased education on stuff like vaccines, testing, treatments etc. And I'm not talking highly politicised content but an attempt to educate the population in some of the basic science behind what's changed the world over the last year. I think there's a role for public information because that void is being filled by the press and social media. I'm not sure how to tackle misinformation on social media but I would go so far as to say that unless "we" (the global "we") do then we can kiss goodbye to tackling climate change. It'll mean clipping the wings of the social media giants and I guess that'll require not only Biden in the WH but a majority in the Senate - unlikely from the Georgia run-offs but maybe will come in 2022 at the next Senate elections. The fact that the likes of Steve Bannon is allowed to continue his platform on FB while calling for Fauci to be beheaded is frankly sick (I'm looking at you Nick Clegg).
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 23, 2020 15:08:04 GMT
...As part of economic stimulus why not incentivise vaccine uptake? Offer each individual, s ay, £1k to have the vaccine to get vaccination rates up and cash back into the economy. I'm not sure it fits in the UK with stimulus aimed primarily at businesses and asset holders rather than individuals. UK population = 66 million.
That's another £66 Billion to add to the national debt.
Uhh ?
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Post by dan1 on Nov 23, 2020 15:15:50 GMT
...As part of economic stimulus why not incentivise vaccine uptake? Offer each individual, s ay, £1k to have the vaccine to get vaccination rates up and cash back into the economy. I'm not sure it fits in the UK with stimulus aimed primarily at businesses and asset holders rather than individuals. UK population = 66 million.
That's another £66 Billion to add to the national debt.
Uhh ?
Huh ? We'll have spent something like £400 billion this year on the economic impact. I wouldn't be surprised if that doubled by the time the pandemic wanes and I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a net gain from accelerating vaccine uptake. Limit it to adults if you like, £50 billion odd.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 23, 2020 15:20:27 GMT
I think the big difference is that if I indulge to excess in drinking, smoking or eating I am only going to kill myself. If I refuse the vaccine I risk spreading the virus and killing lots of other people Having the vaccine doesn't stop you spreading the virus and killing lots of people. I think that depends/will depend on the vaccine, it seems the Oxford one does help prevent transmission as well. We will have to wait to find out how well this and other vaccines do in this regard. And that is not a problem to the people who get vaccinated! Children may well not be routinely offered vaccination, since their risk of serious illness is very low, so if you are worried about becoming infected from people who might be carrying the virus the only sensible option is to get the vaccine anyway.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 23, 2020 15:25:49 GMT
As part of economic stimulus why not incentivise vaccine uptake? Offer each individual, say, £1k to have the vaccine to get vaccination rates up and cash back into the economy. I'm not sure it fits in the UK with stimulus aimed primarily at businesses and asset holders rather than individuals. I think I favour the stick rather than the carrot. How about anyone not havng the vaccine gets 5% added to their marginal tax rate.
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