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Post by dan1 on Dec 30, 2020 10:03:07 GMT
Meanwhile AZOxf vaccine licenced & roll out starts Mon Switch to single shot program to maximize coverage, second shot 3 months later Good news. Where can I find the data on the single dose regimes? ... So this is cool. A graphing of of the Pfizer / BionTech vaccine in action ie the infection rates in the control / placebo group vs the vaccine group. imho it's a pretty compelling graph. ibb.co/qy86MF1EDIT: Didn't like being embedded so click on the link . Neat. I want to see the graph for a single dose regime. I guess the data doesn't (yet?) exist. If a single dose regime was, say, 60% efficacious then would is it better* to first vaccinate everyone once (or at least the higher risk groups) and then give them boosters as more vaccines are produced? The real problem at the moment is the lack of supply. *I'm not sure what defines better but ultimately fewer hospitalisations, deaths, serious complications etc.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 30, 2020 10:14:30 GMT
Provided administering one dose only does no harm it's not hard to see a situation in which a single dose and / or a blended approach of single dose for everybody first then a prioritised second dose depending on risk etc approach might provide a better outcome overall for the population, faster (and this may have become more important with the new variant).
But yeah, be nice to see the data.
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Post by dan1 on Dec 30, 2020 10:27:03 GMT
The cynic in me immediately thinks of single dose regimes as an "opportunity" to sell the second dose privately. I wouldn't be at all surpised to learn a deal has been done - one dose provided by AZN to the NHS at cost provided they can market the second dose privately at profit.
What are your thoughts on the lack of patent-free (is that the correct term, I don't know?) production of these vaccines. I'm sure the likes of India could mass produce these vaccines for pennies per dose. Personally, if it doesn't happen in pretty short order then I think it'll be a massive scandal. I hope developing countries reverse engineer them (again, not the correct term) or buy in the expertise from those sympathetic in AZN/Pfizer-Biontech/Moderna and break WTO rules to vaccinate the developing world.
Not thought through the logic but you get the thrust of my argument.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 30, 2020 10:32:30 GMT
so what was the point of the Excel Nightingale then ...... ?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 30, 2020 10:43:32 GMT
The cynic in me immediately thinks of single dose regimes as an "opportunity" to sell the second dose privately. I wouldn't be at all surpised to learn a deal has been done - one dose provided by AZN to the NHS at cost provided they can market the second dose privately at profit. What are your thoughts on the lack of patent-free (is that the correct term, I don't know?) production of these vaccines. I'm sure the likes of India could mass produce these vaccines for pennies per dose. Personally, if it doesn't happen in pretty short order then I think it'll be a massive scandal. I hope developing countries reverse engineer them (again, not the correct term) or buy in the expertise from those sympathetic in AZN/Pfizer-Biontech/Moderna and break WTO rules to vaccinate the developing world. Not thought through the logic but you get the thrust of my argument. I think that's.... mistaken. Re "one dose provided by AZN at cost etc", the government has already purchased more than enough doses. So it's less about the number of doses and more about the pattern of distribution and relative merits of "more people one dose v less people two doses". As for patent free / India could mass produce for pennies per dose etc, I'm not sure that's correct. Vaccine production could well be a lot more difficult than "normal" generic medicines. See the article in this post.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 30, 2020 10:47:15 GMT
Provided administering one dose only does no harm it's not hard to see a situation in which a single dose and / or a blended approach of single dose for everybody first then a prioritised second dose depending on risk etc approach might provide a better outcome overall for the population, faster (and this may have become more important with the new variant). But yeah, be nice to see the data. Can the gov convince majority of the public to take up single dose? So far, no trial for the under 18's, under 18 not being vaccinated as planned and yet the gov wants to keep schools open. Ideally, the gov needs to find a way to boost vaccine uptake if Covid-19 HIT threshold is above 60% for a quicker end game. Still it is better than having no intervention.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 30, 2020 10:52:07 GMT
The cynic in me immediately thinks of single dose regimes as an "opportunity" to sell the second dose privately. I wouldn't be at all surpised to learn a deal has been done - one dose provided by AZN to the NHS at cost provided they can market the second dose privately at profit. What are your thoughts on the lack of patent-free (is that the correct term, I don't know?) production of these vaccines. I'm sure the likes of India could mass produce these vaccines for pennies per dose. Personally, if it doesn't happen in pretty short order then I think it'll be a massive scandal. I hope developing countries reverse engineer them (again, not the correct term) or buy in the expertise from those sympathetic in AZN/Pfizer-Biontech/Moderna and break WTO rules to vaccinate the developing world. Not thought through the logic but you get the thrust of my argument. I'm a cynic by nature, but that truly is cynical.
The UK Govt has already purchased 100m doses. I'm sure the Govt isn't going to sell a chunk of those rather than give for free. Secondly, the OXFORD/AZN consortium have been fairly altruistic with their approach so far: comittment to 'at cost' supply during the pandemic. Indeed, AZNs approach/comittments was one of the reasons Oxford Uni chose them as their partner. A few quick quotes from an article:
"AstraZeneca executives say they plan to supply every region of the world by 2022 without profiting directly from the vaccine during the pandemic..."
Oxford, using its own small manufacturing facility, was making enough vaccine doses to support early clinical trials. The process had to be reinvented for global production across some two dozen contract manufacturers and partners, from Brazil to Japan and Australia.
In June, the Serum Institute of India, the world’s biggest vaccine maker by volume, agreed to supply one billion doses for low- to middle-income countries. The family-owned Indian drug giant, located a couple of hours from Mumbai, previously partnered with Oxford on a malaria drug. It has made 40 million doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine already, AstraZeneca Chief Executive Pascal Soriot said Monday.
The bold bit seems to explicitely address your specific point re. India. It should be remembered that AZN is not traditionally known as a vaccine manufacturer, so it has both had to but also wanted to bring in other parties for manufacturing.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 30, 2020 10:54:09 GMT
Provided administering one dose only does no harm it's not hard to see a situation in which a single dose and / or a blended approach of single dose for everybody first then a prioritised second dose depending on risk etc approach might provide a better outcome overall for the population, faster (and this may have become more important with the new variant). But yeah, be nice to see the data. definitely be nice to see the data/rationale.
One wonders whether there is a risk that a single dose regimen will make it easier/quicker for a vaccine tolerant strain to emerge (a bit like not completing antibiotic course of treatment).
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Dec 30, 2020 11:05:26 GMT
I have an appointment for a second dose of Pfizer next Tuesday 5th January, I wonder if it will now be cancelled.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Dec 30, 2020 11:24:00 GMT
so what was the point of the Excel Nightingale then ...... ? Surprisingly, they discovered that you cannot operate a new hospital without staff.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Dec 30, 2020 11:34:36 GMT
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 30, 2020 11:37:05 GMT
so what was the point of the Excel Nightingale then ...... ? Surprisingly, they discovered that you cannot operate a new hospital without staff. You would wonder why there are no mega money to develop world beating robo-hospital staffs?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 30, 2020 11:43:21 GMT
Provided administering one dose only does no harm it's not hard to see a situation in which a single dose and / or a blended approach of single dose for everybody first then a prioritised second dose depending on risk etc approach might provide a better outcome overall for the population, faster (and this may have become more important with the new variant). But yeah, be nice to see the data. But even nicer to see the vaccine
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 30, 2020 11:59:16 GMT
4m phials of the AZ vaccine currently available, along with a bath tub containing enough for 15m doses waiting to be put into phials.
70% effective after 3 weeks. I wonder when the first tw*t turns up to be vaccinated and starts a ruck complaining they want the Pfizer jab as it's more effective.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Dec 30, 2020 12:10:42 GMT
I have an appointment for a second dose of Pfizer next Tuesday 5th January, I wonder if it will now be cancelled. I'm struggling to grasp your logic here. Can you expand?
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