agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 14, 2021 12:24:59 GMT
Ref: everyone's favourite new hobby, COVID rules compliance, an interesting threadTLDR; Compliance with the vast majority of rules is actually pretty good. The problem appears to be compliance with the most important rule of all: self-isolating when you have COVID or have recently been in contact with someone who has. ..and who's not doing it right? i.e. Over 20% of people 60+ are not self-isolating for even a single day, compared with virtually no 18-29 year olds doing that. I saw Roland Manthorpe make this presentation on Sky last night, and I thought what a crock of s***. What he fails to point out is that this isn't an assessment of what people are doing, it's an assessment of what people say they are doing (excuse me sir, but do you routinely break the covid rules. No guv, honestly, I comply 100%).
As implied in a post above, the media are out of control with their misinformation:
- BBC headline today is Covid has 'calamitous impact' on surgery wait times. When you read the article it says A total of 4.46 million people were waiting to start hospital treatment in England at the end of November 2020, the highest number since records began.The figure is up from 4.42 million in November 2019 and 4.45 million in October that year. So over the couse of the pandemic it increased from 4.45m to 4.46m? Not a great number, but hardly calamitous.
And don't get me going on Sky. They are good at fact checking and challenging anything that ministers say, but appear happy to take at face value anything the self appointed medical and media experts say. Also their presenters have a poor understanding of the subject being discussed:
- An expert on Sky news yesterday said we needed to vaccinate another 2.5m people by mid February to meet the Government target. I assume that he meant 2.5m per week, but that isn't what he said and the presenter didn't pick him up on it.
- Earlier in the week a media expert on the 10:30pm news show said that 20% of old people were refusing the vaccine and that the mutant strain was 75% more transmisible. Both figures are higher than anything I've heard before but she was not challenged or fact checked.
- A Sky presenter said it had been suggested (no source given) that we could vaccinate the whole country in 5 days. Again not challenged or fact checked.
- The same Sky presenter was talking to a former Chief Scientific Officer, who was asked if vaccination the whole country in 5 days was possible. He said yess, but not in 5 days (whatever that means)
- The same expert also offered up one of the central african countries as an example of how to control the virus. He said we should have closed our borders, but wasn't challenged on how this would work
- I have lost count of how many experts have offered NZ and AUS as examples of how to manage the situation. None of them were challenged as to how you quarantine 5,000 lorry drivers a day, or whether it is realistic to limit inbound passengers at Heathrow to 350 people a day
We are clearly in the sticky brown stuff at present, but I don't think the media are helping. It is easy to see why there is so little confidence in the narrative we are being fed.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 14, 2021 12:44:01 GMT
<removes tongue from cheek> Oh, absolutely. Until people start to realise that their vote does not count towards anything other than their local MP, that one named individual on the ballot paper... I realised something the other day. I have never, not once in my life, lived in a constituency when it's changed party representation. And I've lived in six different constituencies at election time. I've never once voted for the candidate that's won the seat. Interesting, isn't it? "Professional politician" is used as a term of disparagement. People who have politics as their secondary career are seen to know more about "real life". Whatever that might be. And then we go and vote for people who have absolutely no link with the constituency they're representing, having been parachuted in to a safe seat as a reward for their party(-leader) loyalty. And before we know it the country is run by journalists Naming no names...
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Post by dan1 on Jan 14, 2021 13:43:32 GMT
If this thing is so big and bad that we have to almost stop living as we knew it then its big enough to put on hold some privacy laws in the interest of health. The app should be mandatory. There should be dongles to buy for those who don't have or can't use a smart phone. ENforcement the same way as for social distancing and mask wearing. Travellers to the UK must install the app (there are many countries asking for that now). Fixed penalty tickets for those that don't comply. You should have to provide your identifying details to the app (name and whatever else). You can't legally have two - it works the same way as an ID card would. So if you're grounded you really are grounded. If it alerts you to having had possible contact in the past then it tells you when and where and as much reasonable detail as it can. What has actually been done is a half way house to nothing of little use to anyone. There's ALWAYS an initial "justifiable" reason (usually associated with something scary) for taking away civil liberties. Similarly for authoritarian checks (for "show me your papers" replace with "show me your app"). And fighting crime is so much easier when everyone has a mandatory tracking device on them, to be linked in with facial recognition on CCTV cameras (see also: China). Once civil liberties are gone, history tells us it is really difficult to get them back, because there is always the next scary thing that they could be useful for (after the pandemic, controlling terrorism). Somehow "putting on hold" carries on indefinitely. Be very, very careful about what you wish for. I guess when the pandemic has subsided and we're back to near-normal (whatever that may be) there will be a proportion of people who continue to wear face coverings. This is obviously a slight hinderance (to say the least!) to all those facial recognition CCTV systems in operation across the world. It seems that wearing a face covering to avoid being tracked will certainly be less obvious than it otherwise would have been pre-covid. Facial recognition via lidar or some other technology? I wonder what overlap there is between the anti-maskers and anti-facial rocognition. A fair bit I guess in the name of civil liberties? I'd love to see the likes of Desmond Swayne wearing a face covering. Edit: IFISAcava - apologies replying at a tangent,.... did a forum search on facial recognition.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 14, 2021 14:30:02 GMT
There's ALWAYS an initial "justifiable" reason (usually associated with something scary) for taking away civil liberties. Similarly for authoritarian checks (for "show me your papers" replace with "show me your app"). And fighting crime is so much easier when everyone has a mandatory tracking device on them, to be linked in with facial recognition on CCTV cameras (see also: China). Once civil liberties are gone, history tells us it is really difficult to get them back, because there is always the next scary thing that they could be useful for (after the pandemic, controlling terrorism). Somehow "putting on hold" carries on indefinitely. Be very, very careful about what you wish for. I guess when the pandemic has subsided and we're back to near-normal (whatever that may be) there will be a proportion of people who continue to wear face coverings. This is obviously a slight hinderance (to say the least!) to all those facial recognition CCTV systems in operation across the world. It seems that wearing a face covering to avoid being tracked will certainly be less obvious than it otherwise would have been pre-covid. Facial recognition via lidar or some other technology? I wonder what overlap there is between the anti-maskers and anti-facial rocognition. A fair bit I guess in the name of civil liberties? I'd love to see the likes of Desmond Swayne wearing a face covering. Edit: IFISAcava - apologies replying at a tangent,.... did a forum search on facial recognition. One's old posts come back to haunt one! I am no expert, but I would think the upper part of the face (and the eyes) gives a lot of information.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jan 14, 2021 14:30:12 GMT
I guess when the pandemic has subsided and we're back to near-normal (whatever that may be) there will be a proportion of people who continue to wear face coverings. This is obviously a slight hinderance (to say the least!) to all those facial recognition CCTV systems in operation across the world. It seems that wearing a face covering to avoid being tracked will certainly be less obvious than it otherwise would have been pre-covid. Facial recognition via lidar or some other technology? I wonder what overlap there is between the anti-maskers and anti-facial rocognition. A fair bit I guess in the name of civil liberties? I'd love to see the likes of Desmond Swayne wearing a face covering. Edit: IFISAcava - apologies replying at a tangent,.... did a forum search on facial recognition. Not such a big problem for long perhaps? " Even mask-wearers can be ID'd, China facial recognition firm says" Though that article does include a hot tip: "But the system struggles to identify people with both a mask and sunglasses.."
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 14, 2021 14:33:19 GMT
I guess when the pandemic has subsided and we're back to near-normal (whatever that may be) there will be a proportion of people who continue to wear face coverings. This is obviously a slight hinderance (to say the least!) to all those facial recognition CCTV systems in operation across the world. It seems that wearing a face covering to avoid being tracked will certainly be less obvious than it otherwise would have been pre-covid. Facial recognition via lidar or some other technology? I wonder what overlap there is between the anti-maskers and anti-facial rocognition. A fair bit I guess in the name of civil liberties? I'd love to see the likes of Desmond Swayne wearing a face covering. Edit: IFISAcava - apologies replying at a tangent,.... did a forum search on facial recognition. Not such a big problem for long perhaps? " Even mask-wearers can be ID'd, China facial recognition firm says" Though that article does include a hot tip: "But the system struggles to identify people with both a mask and sunglasses.." yeah, but those glasses get really steamed up
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Post by dan1 on Jan 14, 2021 14:45:59 GMT
I guess when the pandemic has subsided and we're back to near-normal (whatever that may be) there will be a proportion of people who continue to wear face coverings. This is obviously a slight hinderance (to say the least!) to all those facial recognition CCTV systems in operation across the world. It seems that wearing a face covering to avoid being tracked will certainly be less obvious than it otherwise would have been pre-covid. Facial recognition via lidar or some other technology? I wonder what overlap there is between the anti-maskers and anti-facial rocognition. A fair bit I guess in the name of civil liberties? I'd love to see the likes of Desmond Swayne wearing a face covering. Edit: IFISAcava - apologies replying at a tangent,.... did a forum search on facial recognition. Not such a big problem for long perhaps? " Even mask-wearers can be ID'd, China facial recognition firm says" Though that article does include a hot tip: "But the system struggles to identify people with both a mask and sunglasses.." Thanks. That was an interesting if somewhat scary read. A claimed ID rate of 95% of masked users and 99.5% unmasked. I'm not really au fait with the arguments around facial recognition but it appears to be an area with far too little oversight from our law makers and scrutiny of existing applicable laws. At least in China you know you're being tracked to every degree whereas here it's all a bit secretive and that concerns me a great deal.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jan 14, 2021 15:26:47 GMT
Thanks. That was an interesting if somewhat scary read. A claimed ID rate of 95% of masked users and 99.5% unmasked. I'm not really au fait with the arguments around facial recognition but it appears to be an area with far too little oversight from our law makers and scrutiny of existing applicable laws. At least in China you know you're being tracked to every degree whereas here it's all a bit secretive and that concerns me a great deal. Yes, I recall a while back there was some news about facial recognition already having been deployed at Heathrow without any real open discussion. Quite disturbing. Of course iren has always been a pioneer at avoiding detection.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 14, 2021 16:43:05 GMT
I guess when the pandemic has subsided and we're back to near-normal (whatever that may be) there will be a proportion of people who continue to wear face coverings. This is obviously a slight hinderance (to say the least!) to all those facial recognition CCTV systems in operation across the world. It seems that wearing a face covering to avoid being tracked will certainly be less obvious than it otherwise would have been pre-covid. Facial recognition via lidar or some other technology? I wonder what overlap there is between the anti-maskers and anti-facial rocognition. A fair bit I guess in the name of civil liberties? I'd love to see the likes of Desmond Swayne wearing a face covering. Edit: IFISAcava - apologies replying at a tangent,.... did a forum search on facial recognition. Not such a big problem for long perhaps? " Even mask-wearers can be ID'd, China facial recognition firm says" Though that article does include a hot tip: "But the system struggles to identify people with both a mask and sunglasses.." Even better, get Phantom glasses for better privacy. Block IR mashable.com/review/review-reflectacles-phantom-anti-facial-recognition-technology-glasses-frames.amp/?europe=true
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Jan 14, 2021 17:02:28 GMT
Thanks. That was an interesting if somewhat scary read. A claimed ID rate of 95% of masked users and 99.5% unmasked. I'm not really au fait with the arguments around facial recognition but it appears to be an area with far too little oversight from our law makers and scrutiny of existing applicable laws. At least in China you know you're being tracked to every degree whereas here it's all a bit secretive and that concerns me a great deal. In China... and in London.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 14, 2021 17:09:54 GMT
Thanks. That was an interesting if somewhat scary read. A claimed ID rate of 95% of masked users and 99.5% unmasked. I'm not really au fait with the arguments around facial recognition but it appears to be an area with far too little oversight from our law makers and scrutiny of existing applicable laws. At least in China you know you're being tracked to every degree whereas here it's all a bit secretive and that concerns me a great deal. In China... and in London. there’s a difference in London, how many CCTV are capable tracking and recognising people in Real time?
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Jan 14, 2021 17:17:25 GMT
In China... and in London. there’s a difference in London, how many CCTV are capable tracking and recognising people in Real time? Who knows? You can try asking GCHQ if they are running any secret programme similar to Optic Nerve but for CCTVs.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 14, 2021 17:20:39 GMT
In China... and in London. there’s a difference in London, how many CCTV are capable tracking and recognising people in Real time? Quite a lot of them in London are traffic enforcement - either fixed for box junctions, or mobile for parking... (And, yes, there's a certain delicious irony in that pic, isn't there?)
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bernythedolt
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 14, 2021 17:22:38 GMT
The Uighur people - those not already rounded up - had better get busy buying sunglasses... www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-55634388"Huawei had previously said none of its technologies was designed to identify ethnic groups". And none of their 5G network equipment would be tracking UK communications either.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 14, 2021 18:57:03 GMT
there’s a difference in London, how many CCTV are capable tracking and recognising people in Real time? Quite a lot of them in London are traffic enforcement - either fixed for box junctions, or mobile for parking... (And, yes, there's a certain delicious irony in that pic, isn't there?) A little off topic. At least we should be happy that there are ways to fight off unfair ticket as victims of cloned number plates in the UK. www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/using/avoid-becoming-a-victim-of-car-cloning
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