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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 17, 2021 13:10:15 GMT
"Norwegian authorities have prioritised the immunisation of residents in nursing homes, most of whom are very elderly with underlying medical conditions and some of whom are terminally ill."
I'll probably catch flak, but is immunising the terminally ill really the best use of a scarce resource?
And surely they recognised that the ensuing inevitable deaths would stir up concerns over the vaccine's safety?
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 17, 2021 13:11:29 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 17, 2021 13:28:09 GMT
"Norwegian authorities have prioritised the immunisation of residents in nursing homes, most of whom are very elderly with underlying medical conditions and some of whom are terminally ill."
I'll probably catch flak, but is immunising the terminally ill really the best use of a scarce resource? And surely they recognised that the ensuing inevitable deaths would stir up concerns over the vaccine's safety? How many elderly frail people die in Norway every day whether vaccinated or not? Is the number dying after vaccination statistically significant?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 17, 2021 14:30:28 GMT
"Norwegian authorities have prioritised the immunisation of residents in nursing homes, most of whom are very elderly with underlying medical conditions and some of whom are terminally ill."
I'll probably catch flak, but is immunising the terminally ill really the best use of a scarce resource? And surely they recognised that the ensuing inevitable deaths would stir up concerns over the vaccine's safety? How many elderly frail people die in Norway every day whether vaccinated or not? Is the number dying after vaccination statistically significant?It's a clasic case of the old media adage ,never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
About 2,200 people in the UK die in care homes every week from natural causes. If all care home residents are vaccinated over a 4 week period, then you would expect 500 of them each week to die within 7 days of receiving the vaccine. I'm certain this will embolden the anti vaxxers to step up their campaign, without once considering how many would have died without the vaccine.
I suspect that when it comes to vaccinating the oldest and most frail in society it is very much a case of dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 17, 2021 15:41:03 GMT
I must admit I'm getting fed up with the anti anti-vax propaganda. I'm definitely going to have my vaccine as soon as possible and would hope others do too.
However, lunchtime is when I normally have a quick read of the bbc website and the propaganda has been relentless. They are clearly scared of the anti-vax community growing but the way to tackle it is not to show endless stories of people enjoying their vaccine or new places to have it in.
Today it is Willam "proud" of Queen and Phillip for having the jab which I suppose is bordering on news for Royal lovers but more suitable for the Sun. Yesterday they had a piece about folk receiving their jab in a church somewhere - both worthy of the front page.
Don't be scared to report what is happening in Norway...
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 17, 2021 15:54:57 GMT
"Norwegian authorities have prioritised the immunisation of residents in nursing homes, most of whom are very elderly with underlying medical conditions and some of whom are terminally ill."
I'll probably catch flak, but is immunising the terminally ill really the best use of a scarce resource? And surely they recognised that the ensuing inevitable deaths would stir up concerns over the vaccine's safety? How many elderly frail people die in Norway every day whether vaccinated or not? Is the number dying after vaccination statistically significant? Exactly, I think we agree. Many of them were already at death's door. It's difficult enough to persuade ~30% of people to accept this vaccine, without administering it to those about to die of other causes. The anti-vaxxers will be having a field day today. I guess we've entered the tricky world of ethics and whether or not a terminally ill patient should be getting immunised, so I couldn't criticise anyone. But I wouldn't mind betting the same thing has happened here in the UK and we've suppressed it better, rather than boost the anti-vaxxer narrative.
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Post by stevepn on Jan 17, 2021 20:35:13 GMT
How many elderly frail people die in Norway every day whether vaccinated or not? Is the number dying after vaccination statistically significant?It's a clasic case of the old media adage ,never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
About 2,200 people in the UK die in care homes every week from natural causes. If all care home residents are vaccinated over a 4 week period, then you would expect 500 of them each week to die within 7 days of receiving the vaccine. I'm certain this will embolden the anti vaxxers to step up their campaign, without once considering how many would have died without the vaccine.
I suspect that when it comes to vaccinating the oldest and most frail in society it is very much a case of dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.
Thank goodness non of these old folk are dying of covid or the total would be even worse.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 17, 2021 20:58:18 GMT
It's a clasic case of the old media adage ,never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
About 2,200 people in the UK die in care homes every week from natural causes. If all care home residents are vaccinated over a 4 week period, then you would expect 500 of them each week to die within 7 days of receiving the vaccine. I'm certain this will embolden the anti vaxxers to step up their campaign, without once considering how many would have died without the vaccine.
I suspect that when it comes to vaccinating the oldest and most frail in society it is very much a case of dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.
Thank goodness non of these old folk are dying of covid or the total would be even worse. Of course some are dying of Covid, some dying with Covid and some are just dying.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Jan 17, 2021 22:06:53 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 17, 2021 22:25:41 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 18, 2021 8:29:25 GMT
I must admit I'm getting fed up with the anti anti-vax propaganda. I'm definitely going to have my vaccine as soon as possible and would hope others do too. However, lunchtime is when I normally have a quick read of the bbc website and the propaganda has been relentless. They are clearly scared of the anti-vax community growing but the way to tackle it is not to show endless stories of people enjoying their vaccine or new places to have it in. Today it is Willam "proud" of Queen and Phillip for having the jab which I suppose is bordering on news for Royal lovers but more suitable for the Sun. Yesterday they had a piece about folk receiving their jab in a church somewhere - both worthy of the front page. Don't be scared to report what is happening in Norway...We all seem to have fully discussed it, also not very headline worthy 'Elderly frail people dying in Norway' (and everywhere else). The church was Salisbury Cathedral, vaccination to organ music no less. That even reached the US press, very quaintly British! Edit: I also think it is reasonable to report that the Queen had the vaccine, she is the head of state.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 18, 2021 9:29:41 GMT
I must admit I'm getting fed up with the anti anti-vax propaganda. I'm definitely going to have my vaccine as soon as possible and would hope others do too. However, lunchtime is when I normally have a quick read of the bbc website and the propaganda has been relentless. They are clearly scared of the anti-vax community growing but the way to tackle it is not to show endless stories of people enjoying their vaccine or new places to have it in. Today it is Willam "proud" of Queen and Phillip for having the jab which I suppose is bordering on news for Royal lovers but more suitable for the Sun. Yesterday they had a piece about folk receiving their jab in a church somewhere - both worthy of the front page. Don't be scared to report what is happening in Norway...We all seem to have fully discussed it, also not very headline worthy 'Elderly frail people dying in Norway' (and everywhere else). The church was Salisbury Cathedral, vaccination to organ music no less. That even reached the US press, very quaintly British! Edit: I also think it is reasonable to report that the Queen had the vaccine, she is the head of state.Definitely news worthy, and in line with what is happening world wide in terms of politicians/heads of state/well known figures publicly getting vaccinated in order to help normalise it and encourage others. Definitely reasonable. The Duke of Cambridge (William ?) declaring "how proud he is of them having it" however did make me want to reach for the bucket. He should rightly be proud of what they did in WWII, but not of them receiving a potentially life saving jab.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 18, 2021 9:43:06 GMT
Definitely news worthy, and in line with what is happening world wide in terms of politicians/ heads of state/well known figures publicly getting vaccinated in order to help normalise it and encourage others. Definitely reasonable. The Duke of Cambridge (William ?) declaring "how proud he is of them having it" however did make me want to reach for the bucket. He should rightly be proud of what they did in WWII, but not of them receiving a potentially life saving jab. All apart from the fat boy, and the twat in Brazil
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 18, 2021 9:45:37 GMT
This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review
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Post by moonraker on Jan 18, 2021 9:54:45 GMT
I wonder to what extent elite athletes who have had Covid will recover? Several top cyclists have caught it, including Alex Dowsett, who was planning to attempt the World Hour Record (riding as far as possible in one hour on a track). Andy Murray has it, as have top footballers (which makes all the hugging & kissing on the pitch even more incomprehensible).
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