SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 29, 2020 9:25:51 GMT
Given the track records post covid how do you rate AC performance against "junk" bond funds like PSSL?
Selectively picking "post Covid" as your time-frame gives a totally misleading comparison (what date do you define as "post Covid" anyway, given the effects will last for months / years yet?) Between 28th February and 19th March, PSSL shares more than halved in value from 866p to 432p, whereas my AC loan book increased in value by about 0.5%. Since mid-March, PSSL has almost (but not quite) recovered again, and I'd probably need to offer an average 3-4% discount to sell my MLA & modest QAA AC holdings today (with a few loans remaining suspended for now). No idea what conclusion you want to draw from that (other than it would have been good to sell PSSL in late Feb and buy straight back in 3 weeks later!)
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alender
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Post by alender on Aug 29, 2020 9:38:52 GMT
Given the track records post covid how do you rate AC performance against "junk" bond funds like PSSL?
Selectively picking "post Covid" as your time-frame gives a totally misleading comparison (what date do you define as "post Covid" anyway, given the effects will last for months / years yet?) Between 28th February and 19th March, PSSL shares more than halved in value from 866p to 432p, whereas my AC loan book increased in value by about 0.5%. Since mid-March, PSSL has almost (but not quite) recovered again, and I'd probably need to offer an average 3-4% discount to sell my MLA & modest QAA AC holdings today (with a few loans remaining suspended for now). No idea what conclusion you want to draw from that (other than it would have been good to sell PSSL in late Feb and buy straight back in 3 weeks later!) My main comparison is the payments made to investors and actions taken. We can argue about prices, this is market sensitive but remember it was Stuart who like to use these comparisons.
Pick a time frame for the start of Covid, perhaps Feb 2020, Mar 2020, AC lock in date, Government home isolation date and then compare dividends from these so called "junk" bond funds like VSL, HONY, PSSL against AC, these are all loan companies. Only AC reduced rates, introduced lender fees, why are these other companies able to cope so much better the with the dividends let alone all the other things AC have done Post Covid.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 29, 2020 9:54:24 GMT
Selectively picking "post Covid" as your time-frame gives a totally misleading comparison (what date do you define as "post Covid" anyway, given the effects will last for months / years yet?) Between 28th February and 19th March, PSSL shares more than halved in value from 866p to 432p, whereas my AC loan book increased in value by about 0.5%. Since mid-March, PSSL has almost (but not quite) recovered again, and I'd probably need to offer an average 3-4% discount to sell my MLA & modest QAA AC holdings today (with a few loans remaining suspended for now). No idea what conclusion you want to draw from that (other than it would have been good to sell PSSL in late Feb and buy straight back in 3 weeks later!) My main comparison is the payments made to investors and actions taken. We can argue about prices, this is market sensitive but remember it was Stuart who like to use these comparisons.
Pick a time frame for the start of Covid, perhaps Feb 2020, Mar 2020, AC lock in date, Government home isolation date and then compare dividends from these so called "junk" bond funds like VSL, HONY, PSSL against AC, these are all loan companies. Only AC reduced rates, introduced lender fees, why are these other companies able to cope so much better the with the dividends let alone all the other things AC have done Post Covid.
Just a casual look, but shouldnt PSSL have declared a divided in Aug (looking at normal pattern)? As such isnt it therefore a little early to judge its Covid performance as the previous dividend was based on pre-lockdown performance?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 29, 2020 10:06:15 GMT
My main comparison is the payments made to investors and actions taken. We can argue about prices, this is market sensitive but remember it was Stuart who like to use these comparisons.
Pick a time frame for the start of Covid, perhaps Feb 2020, Mar 2020, AC lock in date, Government home isolation date and then compare dividends from these so called "junk" bond funds like VSL, HONY, PSSL against AC, these are all loan companies. Only AC reduced rates, introduced lender fees, why are these other companies able to cope so much better the with the dividends let alone all the other things AC have done Post Covid.
Surely you must realise that comparing short-term corporate dividends from a fund like PSSL against actual lender interest paid on AC is like comparing apples and pears (or maybe better, apples and apple sauce). Directors have many levers they can pull to maintain a dividend in the short term (eg. squeezing reserves, paying out capital as income, increasing leverage, etc.). Without knowing the underlying status of the PSSL loan book (% of loans late and defaulted, underlying security valuations, interest deferrals, etc.) how can you possibly compare loan book performance vs AC? I'm giving up on this conversation now as you're either seriously naive or deliberately misleading. Good luck with your investments! {crossed with ilmoro }
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alender
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Post by alender on Aug 29, 2020 12:14:25 GMT
My main comparison is the payments made to investors and actions taken. We can argue about prices, this is market sensitive but remember it was Stuart who like to use these comparisons.
Pick a time frame for the start of Covid, perhaps Feb 2020, Mar 2020, AC lock in date, Government home isolation date and then compare dividends from these so called "junk" bond funds like VSL, HONY, PSSL against AC, these are all loan companies. Only AC reduced rates, introduced lender fees, why are these other companies able to cope so much better the with the dividends let alone all the other things AC have done Post Covid.
Just a casual look, but shouldnt PSSL have declared a divided in Aug (looking at normal pattern)? As such isnt it therefore a little early to judge its Covid performance as the previous dividend was based on pre-lockdown performance? Wow, you must spend a lot of time researching posts that are not favourable to AC.
I read about the dividend a little while ago and this is nothing to do with Covid, it is linked to the possible takeover or merger, however not important as it is fractured into the share price, if/when it is paid the price will drop but I will end up with the same returns.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Aug 29, 2020 12:24:27 GMT
I don't want to be pointing the obvious out, but dividends (even when paid out in the fund you are describing) are mathematically different and are taken generally directly from impacts of the REIT & share value on ex-dividend date (and alot of corporate calculations). Like these aren't' loan book interest payments, they shouldn't be compared at face value. Even when payments fail to materialize from the books inside these companies, the companies can sacrifice other income streams to cough up the money for the dividend to make sure investors don't' flee. These can be signs of issues but are underly signs. Clearly, the NAV is showing something is up.
My point is, its kinda hard to compare these two investments directly. Although I can certainly agree on the majority of your concerns/complaints with AC over the months.
I'm not defending AC, I'm just saying.
I too have made alot of money from the March-April rally run (the strongest in history so far in the USA), so it really wasn't hard to make a profit. If you didn't, you'd have to have been invested in oil or something lol. Not really a measurement of performance.
Holding, Fundsmith, Lindsell & Stratgic Bond.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 29, 2020 12:24:39 GMT
Just a casual look, but shouldnt PSSL have declared a divided in Aug (looking at normal pattern)? As such isnt it therefore a little early to judge its Covid performance as the previous dividend was based on pre-lockdown performance? Wow, you must spend a lot of time researching posts that are not favourable to AC. Well I typed it into Investegate and looked at the fundamentals and checked the news feed. So perhaps a minute.
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alender
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Post by alender on Aug 29, 2020 12:34:06 GMT
I don't want to be pointing the obvious out, but dividends (even when paid out in the fund you are describing) are mathematically different and are taken generally directly from impacts of the REIT & share value on ex-dividend date (and alot of corporate calculations). Like these aren't' loan book interest payments, they shouldn't be compared at face value. Even when payments fail to materialize from the books inside these companies, the companies can sacrifice other income streams to cough up the money for the dividend to make sure investors don't' flee. These can be signs of issues but are underly signs. Clearly, the NAV is showing something is up. I'm not defending AC, I'm just saying. I too have made alot of money from the March-April rally run (the strongest in history so far in the USA), so it really wasn't hard to make a profit. If you didn't, you'd have to have been invested in oil or something lol. Not really a measurement of performance. Holding, Fundsmith, Lindsell & Stratgic Bond. These are investment trusts specialising in loans, I am not looking at trading shares, I am looking at how they have performed against AC especially in the area of dividends post covid, I only keep a close eye on PSSL as I own shares but from the reports and everthing I see it is doing so much better than AC when it comes to its loan management. It may have problems in the future but AC have them now and who knowns how much worse they will become.
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alender
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Post by alender on Aug 29, 2020 12:48:05 GMT
My main comparison is the payments made to investors and actions taken. We can argue about prices, this is market sensitive but remember it was Stuart who like to use these comparisons.
Pick a time frame for the start of Covid, perhaps Feb 2020, Mar 2020, AC lock in date, Government home isolation date and then compare dividends from these so called "junk" bond funds like VSL, HONY, PSSL against AC, these are all loan companies. Only AC reduced rates, introduced lender fees, why are these other companies able to cope so much better the with the dividends let alone all the other things AC have done Post Covid.
Surely you must realise that comparing short-term corporate dividends from a fund like PSSL against actual lender interest paid on AC is like comparing apples and pears (or maybe better, apples and apple sauce). Directors have many levers they can pull to maintain a dividend in the short term (eg. squeezing reserves, paying out capital as income, increasing leverage, etc.). Without knowing the underlying status of the PSSL loan book (% of loans late and defaulted, underlying security valuations, interest deferrals, etc.) how can you possibly compare loan book performance vs AC? I'm giving up on this conversation now as you're either seriously naive or deliberately misleading. Good luck with your investments! {crossed with ilmoro } You are guessing to the reasons why companies like PSSL can maintain the dividend, look at the reports, they come out once a month. If PSSL are so short of cash why are they able to keep buying their own shares. By the way it not short term it has occurred since I bought the shares.
I would question who is naive or deliberately misleading, I state the facts of what has happened to my investments pre and post covid with PSSL and AC up to now and you come up with conjecture on what might be going on and what might happen in the future. I tend to think if there are problems which are not being reported the share price would have dropped as there are analysts looking behind the scenes advising institutions, from my experience of many shares the share price first reacts then the news follows, it is not a good situation but all we small retail investors have to work with.
I too think it is time to give up on this subject, I wish you well with AC partly because I do not like to see anyone losing money and partly because I am in the same boat so we both lose.
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Post by drphil on Aug 30, 2020 9:52:06 GMT
Some recoveries take longer where they are proactive, yes. Slower than just throwing out to auction etc. We are evaluating if this is attractive to investors and yes that one has taken longer than we would like. We aim to speed up and deliver better value than a simple and quick exit in cases that merit it. More on that in due course. The cost of Ratesetter’s guarantees proved too much in the end and so whilst it delivered fantastic results for many years, the question is was it sustainable over 100 years ? Our real world return is part of our strategy and we intend to continue that even in these interesting times. It is with deep sadness that they have left the retail direct lending world as they delivered great value to retail investors. We do appreciate this engagement by the way and are opening an “ask the panel” facility on our website shortly to better engage with Q&A’s on how the platform works, how we think and how we could serve you better In order to look after everyone’s capital and returns. We are accountable in particular through our long term returns and ideally low volatility over that long term and absolutely we want to be measured versus other investment options. A welcome development, IMO
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puddleduck
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Post by puddleduck on Sept 1, 2020 11:03:37 GMT
Loan #1055 has repaid £713K I have no longer been tracking this really as I sold out around 5% when the day the SM launched so have no pending withdrawals to track against repayments now. It is my imagination or have pro rata repayments been significantly lower since the SM launched?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Sept 1, 2020 11:10:59 GMT
Loan #1055 has repaid £713K I have no longer been tracking this really as I sold out around 5% when the day the SM launched so have no pending withdrawals to track against repayments now. It is my imagination or have pro rata repayments been significantly lower since the SM launched? I can't answer that, as AC don't say how much of each loan is in AAs (and I don't keep details of each loan and payout)
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iann
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Post by iann on Sept 2, 2020 9:48:51 GMT
Loan #1055 has repaid £713K
Edit: Loan #1273 has repaid £167K
Looks like it was distributed overnight: about 10.69 per 10k
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iann
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Post by iann on Sept 3, 2020 10:26:17 GMT
Loan #845 has been refinanced, £400K
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Sept 3, 2020 10:51:52 GMT
Loan #845 has been refinanced, £400K Just had an email from AC about upcoming loan #1281, which is the replacement loan
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