sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Mar 15, 2020 23:07:48 GMT
I have turned off the Invest Idle funds to stop the uninvested balance in my MLA being swept to QAA. The FAQ suggests this has triggered an addition to the QAA withdrawal queue. However when I click "Queued Withdrawals" in the QAA panel I get the message "You currently have no funds queued for withdrawal in the Quick Access Account." When I now click on "Withdraw" in the MLA panel I get the message: "Please cancel your current withdraw target before proceeding. Current withdraw target £XXXX.XX" Two option buttons <<Close>> and <<Cancel Withdraw Target>> XXXX.XX matches the "Awaiting Investment" amount in the MLA panel and also the "Total Investment" amount in the QAA panel. Are others in a similar position seeing something similar? I have exactly the same situation. chris Please could you confirm if the above system behaviour means we have joined the QAA withdrawal queue? If so, when can we expect to see the "Queued Withdrawals" and "Queue Position" options in the QAA panel to be correctly populated? If not, what are we now expected to do to join the QAA withdrawal queue?
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Post by Harland Kearney on Mar 15, 2020 23:09:09 GMT
Related to what I said many many pages ago, if it is a pro-rata type distubution, that doesnt mean it bad or good. We can't make that judgement without more data, as it could simply be that QAA withdrawals will now take 72 hours instead of 0.02 seconds as they used to. We simply won't know until Thursday hopefully its going full swing then.
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Mar 15, 2020 23:13:56 GMT
Perhaps I read it wrongly. But it seems to me the "queue" is not really a queue. I quote from the FAQ dated 2100hrs 15/03 "all queue members will be treated equally until further notice - joining the queue today versus tomorrow will not create a significant advantage as there will be a pro-rata distribution of cash available for distribution to all Access Account withdrawal queue members" I interpret that to mean what they term a "queue" is just a list of withdrawal requests without any timestamp or need for a timestamp. I imagine money will be repaid in dribs and drabs over an extended period of time as interest and capital payments roll in. chrisIsn't using the word 'pool' more appropriate than 'queue' in the above approach mentioned in the FAQ?
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corto
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Post by corto on Mar 15, 2020 23:33:56 GMT
"We are also working on a way to let investors choose to permanently leave the Access Accounts with both their share of the uninvested cash and their loan investments ... Those loan agreements would be able to continue to benefit from the relevant Access Account provision fund."
Wonder how that is going to work. Have the insurance without paying the premium?
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 15, 2020 23:41:32 GMT
Queue (Computing): a list of data items, commands, etc., stored so as to be retrievable in a definite order, usually the order of insertion.
What has been described by Assetz is not a queue, all this pro-rate nonsense is against the terms and conditions.
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Post by Ace on Mar 16, 2020 0:35:03 GMT
Queue (Computing): a list of data items, commands, etc., stored so as to be retrievable in a definite order, usually the order of insertion. What has been described by Assetz is not a queue, all this pro-rate nonsense is against the terms and conditions.
Spot on Mousey . Furthermore, we had clarification from both stuartassetzcapital and chris back in December that the access account withdrawal queue was indeed a proper FIFO queue, where withdrawal requests were time stamped and processed in order. See highlighted text below: Indeed it is as simple as both that and how Chris explained the simple queue priority process. We have had around £1.5 billion of withdrawals that went through to date at the exact second they were requested whether QAA or 30 or 90 day notice. Only possible in normal market conditions though of course and one day that may not work but our mechanics are patently better than all other players in the market given this forum monitors liquidity on all the main platforms. And that is a fact. Who gets there money first is quite simply a queue of requests and if there was ever a time that a request for say QAA wasn’t fulfilled instantly then a 90DAA request that was due out the next second would have to wait for the QAA request to be fulfilled first.I hope that helps. chris - therefore to be absolutely clear, if a QAA withdrawal happens seconds after a 90day is due to be processed, the 90 day withdrawal has priority, because it is higher in the queue - other forumites bear with!! Cheers P Yes. If the 90DAA withdrawal is due to be processed and a QAA withdrawal is requested 1 second later, and there's an insufficient liquidity buffer to process the withdrawals at that point in time, then as loan repayments are made or new investment comes into the accounts to replenish the liquidity buffer then that 90DAA withdrawal would be processed in full before that QAA withdrawal.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 16, 2020 1:18:14 GMT
I have turned off the Invest Idle funds to stop the uninvested balance in my MLA being swept to QAA. The FAQ suggests this has triggered an addition to the QAA withdrawal queue. However when I click "Queued Withdrawals" in the QAA panel I get the message "You currently have no funds queued for withdrawal in the Quick Access Account." When I now click on "Withdraw" in the MLA panel I get the message: "Please cancel your current withdraw target before proceeding. Current withdraw target £XXXX.XX" Two option buttons <<Close>> and <<Cancel Withdraw Target>> XXXX.XX matches the "Awaiting Investment" amount in the MLA panel and also the "Total Investment" amount in the QAA panel. Are others in a similar position seeing something similar? I assume that the QAA queue only relates to funds directly invested in the QAA not swept funds or funds from elsewhere. I would assume that once the 'queue' system is in operation that there will be some form of master queue encompassing all requests displayed.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 16, 2020 7:06:18 GMT
I think AC's axing of the QAA's "First In - First Out" queue once the inevitable "run" took hold was the only fair and reasonable option. It certainly shouldn't come as any great surprise (eg. see here from June 2018 and similar warnings from many others). Imagine the outcry (as Funding Circle previously experienced) of most QAA lenders (plus 30DAA / 90DAA lenders after the requisite 30 / 90 days notice period) sitting behind a glacially-moving multi-million £ queue and seeing the few lucky ones at the front getting repaid in full. Instead, the FIFO queue has been put aside and all lenders in the new “mass queue” will get a trickle of pro-rata micro-repayments whenever cash is received into the Access Accounts from borrowers (plus any new lender investments). Given the months or years it will now take fully to cash-out a QAA holding, a better option for some lenders may be to take the suggested-at future option to transfer their underlying QAA loan holdings into the MLA and (presumably) receive the headline interest in full whilst carrying the underlying risk of loan default. Trusting that the QAA's Provision Fund will be able to cover future potential losses in full after the sort of "black swan" event we're experiencing may be somewhat optimistic!
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tonyr
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Post by tonyr on Mar 16, 2020 7:06:35 GMT
Queue (Computing): a list of data items, commands, etc., stored so as to be retrievable in a definite order, usually the order of insertion. What has been described by Assetz is not a queue, all this pro-rate nonsense is against the terms and conditions.
Spot on Mousey . Furthermore, we had clarification from both stuartassetzcapital and chris back in December that the access account withdrawal queue was indeed a proper FIFO queue, where withdrawal requests were time stamped and processed in order. See highlighted text below: Indeed it is as simple as both that and how Chris explained the simple queue priority process. We have had around £1.5 billion of withdrawals that went through to date at the exact second they were requested whether QAA or 30 or 90 day notice. Only possible in normal market conditions though of course and one day that may not work but our mechanics are patently better than all other players in the market given this forum monitors liquidity on all the main platforms. And that is a fact. Who gets there money first is quite simply a queue of requests and if there was ever a time that a request for say QAA wasn’t fulfilled instantly then a 90DAA request that was due out the next second would have to wait for the QAA request to be fulfilled first.I hope that helps. Yes. If the 90DAA withdrawal is due to be processed and a QAA withdrawal is requested 1 second later, and there's an insufficient liquidity buffer to process the withdrawals at that point in time, then as loan repayments are made or new investment comes into the accounts to replenish the liquidity buffer then that 90DAA withdrawal would be processed in full before that QAA withdrawal. So there are two issues. 1) we signed up for a queue, we had it whilst it wasn't needed and now we have a pool, so what should we do? 2) we need to know what 'there will be a pro-rata distribution of cash available for distribution to all Access Account withdrawal queue member' means. If there are 100 people waiting but I have 10% of the cash requested to exit, do I get 10% or 1%? Pro rata would normally mean 10% but there again queue normally means queue not pool.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 16, 2020 7:21:12 GMT
So there are two issues. 1) we signed up for a queue, we had it whilst it wasn't needed and now we have a pool, so what should we do? 2) we need to know what 'there will be a pro-rata distribution of cash available for distribution to all Access Account withdrawal queue member' means. If there are 100 people waiting but I have 10% of the cash requested to exit, do I get 10% or 1%? Pro rata would normally mean 10% but there again queue normally means queue not pool. It has to be pro-rata to value of £ holding in the withdrawal "mass queue" / pool (as per lender voting, etc.). Nothing else makes sense, nor could be justified as fair to all lenders.
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tonyr
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Post by tonyr on Mar 16, 2020 8:29:09 GMT
So there are two issues. 1) we signed up for a queue, we had it whilst it wasn't needed and now we have a pool, so what should we do? 2) we need to know what 'there will be a pro-rata distribution of cash available for distribution to all Access Account withdrawal queue member' means. If there are 100 people waiting but I have 10% of the cash requested to exit, do I get 10% or 1%? Pro rata would normally mean 10% but there again queue normally means queue not pool. It has to be pro-rata to value of £ holding in the withdrawal "mass queue" / pool (as per lender voting, etc.). Nothing else makes sense, nor could be justified as fair to all lenders. Maybe, maybe not - as AC have reinterpreted the use of the word 'queue' I'm waiting. For example, normal buying and selling is in a pool, but it satisfies the largest number of parties by giving everyone a little. Maybe AC need to satisfy the largest number of people here to keep in business?
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Mar 16, 2020 9:18:23 GMT
If I am interpreting yesterday's FAQ correctly, the proposed approach means that if a QAA withdrawal request made today takes longer than 30 days to fulfil, a withdrawal request from by a 30DAA investor made today would be merged (after 30 days) into the same queue/pool (as the QAA withdrawal request made today) and thenceforth receive the same priority as the QAA request.
Whilst waiting in this withdrawal queue/pool, the QAA investor would receive 4.1% pa interest and the 30DAA investor 5.1% pa.
Is the above interpretation correct?
If this is the case (leaving the legalities of this approach aside for a minute) after 30 days waiting shouldn't the rate of interest for the QAA investor be increased to that for a 30DAA account, which is thenceforth receiving an equivalent priority in the withdrawal queue/pool? (and after 90 days waiting, a QAA investor should get an increased rate of interest to that for a 90DAA account).
No doing so is surely unfair to the QAA investor in this proposed approach.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 16, 2020 9:24:03 GMT
If I am interpreting yesterday's FAQ correctly, the proposed approach means that if a QAA withdrawal request made today takes longer than 30 days to fulfil, a withdrawal request from by a 30DAA investor made today would be merged into the same queue/pool (as the QAA withdrawal request made today) and thenceforth receive the same priority as the QAA request. Whilst waiting in this withdrawal queue/pool, the QAA investor would receive 4.1% pa interest and the 30DAA investor 5.1% pa. Is the above interpretation correct? If this is case (leaving the legalities of this approach aside for a minute) after 30 days waiting shouldn't the rate of interest for the QAA investor be increased to that for a 30DAA account, which is thenceforth receiving an equivalent priority in the withdrawal queue/pool? (and after 90 days waiting, a QAA investor should get an increased rate of interest to that for a 90DAA account) No. During the 30 / 90 day notice period, the notice accounts continue to receive the higher interest rates but receive no pro-rata share of any available cash in that period. After that, their money enters the same withdrawal pool as everyone else. I presume they’ll then receive the lower QAA rate (unless they opt to move their holdings into the MLA instead). AC certainly cannot afford suddenly to pay 30/90DAA rates on the huge QAA balances!
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 16, 2020 9:44:36 GMT
What it means is that the rate at which money in access accounts can be retrieved is going to be glacial and possibly as slow and as useless as MLA. I’ve stuck with QAA for the last few months happy to sacrifice a considerable amount of interest for the expected liquidity. I certainly expected to be able to get my cash faster than the 30 or 90 day accounts. I even expected to be able to get my cash at the expense of the other access accounts. But now, once again, AC are re-writing history and the rules. They want to shunt my cash into another broken account with loans that will likely fester for ten years, adding complexity to every tax return and wrecking any kind of estate planning. Never again. AC are worse than the the worse platform round here because they pretend they are something special, something different. They are not. They are just focused on the IPO that will never come. No, you accepted the lower interest rate in return for enjoying instant access during normal market conditions. The T&Cs made clear that normal market conditions could not be relied upon to continue in perpetuity. It’s been obvious for at least a month that very abnormal things were afoot in the wider world. You cannot blame AC for your own acceptance of risk.
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Mar 16, 2020 9:47:09 GMT
It has to be pro-rata to value of £ holding in the withdrawal "mass queue" / pool (as per lender voting, etc.). Nothing else makes sense, nor could be justified as fair to all lenders. Maybe, maybe not - as AC have reinterpreted the use of the word 'queue' I'm waiting. For example, normal buying and selling is in a pool, but it satisfies the largest number of parties by giving everyone a little. Maybe AC need to satisfy the largest number of people here to keep in business? Maybe AC need to satisfy the largest number of people here to keep in business?
With a rapidly declining economy AC will have to walk the tightrope of actually remaining in business. If a small number of vocal investors are repaid in full, liquidity may well drop to a level that pushes the business to insolvency! That will see many other investors left with nothing! It is imperative to everyone of us that AC comes through these exceptional times. Many businesses will not make it & we are going into uncharted waters.
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