Mikeme
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Post by Mikeme on Mar 29, 2020 13:29:21 GMT
I agree but AC are in the best position to know that. Most of them will also do the honourable thing. Definitely not a Scottish hotel owner!!!! If you continue to hear voices in your head may I suggest seeking professional help. Thanks for the advice. As it so happens I have been diagnosed as insane but recovered. I think spreadsheets are what you do for a picnic however I can read the obvious writings on the wall. AC will make the decisions that they feel right to make for the sake of borrower and lenders alike. We can stress all we like about the rights and wrongs of interest entitlement but the decisions are made. Lets move on to helping borrowers to succeed because that will in in the end give us the best result.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 29, 2020 13:41:28 GMT
If you continue to hear voices in your head may I suggest seeking professional help. Thanks for the advice. As it so happens I have been diagnosed as insane but recovered. I think spreadsheets are what you do for a picnic however I can read the obvious writings on the wall. AC will make the decisions that they feel right to make for the sake of borrower and lenders alike. We can stress all we like about the rights and wrongs of interest entitlement but the decisions are made. Lets move on to helping borrowers to succeed because that will in in the end give us the best result. There has been absolutely no advantage to Assetz by changing the terms and conditions of the access accounts that have been in place for 4.5 years. None whatsoever. Zero.
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Mikeme
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Post by Mikeme on Mar 29, 2020 13:52:28 GMT
Thanks for the advice. As it so happens I have been diagnosed as insane but recovered. I think spreadsheets are what you do for a picnic however I can read the obvious writings on the wall. AC will make the decisions that they feel right to make for the sake of borrower and lenders alike. We can stress all we like about the rights and wrongs of interest entitlement but the decisions are made. Lets move on to helping borrowers to succeed because that will in in the end give us the best result. There has been absolutely no advantage to Assetz by changing the terms and conditions of the access accounts that have been in place for 4.5 years. None whatsoever. Zero.
There's no advantage to Assetz at all they have made decisions to the benefit of lenders and borrowers. No payments from borrowers means no income for Assetz. As to change of terms. UNDER NORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS. After the debacle of the recent platform failures they would have made sure they were on sound legal ground before making the decisions. Complain as much as we like it's done and dusted and won't change.
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mark
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Post by mark on Mar 29, 2020 13:56:56 GMT
All platforms are experiencing withdrawals in the current environment and those with secondary markets are also witnessing loans being offered for sale at a discount. This is to be expected given whats going on and is obviously affecting all asset classes not just p2p. The problem in Assetz case is that they have compounded these industry wide problems by changing their account rules, penalising large investors and locking their money up whilst using pooled funds to bail out small investors. Assetz no longer treats everyone on a level playing field, and hence they are likely to experience much more significant redemptions than they otherwise would have. I think your sentiment is correct, but I'm not certain I would describe it as bailing out.
I have about £2.5k in the QAA and received about £130 repayment last week. So if you assume:
- the rush for the door was w/e 15th
- withdrawl was suspended for w/e 22nd
- £130 repaid w/e 29th (mainly due to 1 large redemption)
If we stick with a very rosy analysis I should get £130 for the next 2 weeks, at which point the 30 day tidal wave of withdrawls will join the pool. Assuming this is a similar amount to the QAA withdrawls, I will then get £65 for the next 7 weeks before the 90 day account tsunami hits the pool. I am then down to £43 / week. Overall it will take 48 weeks for a small investor to get repaid, and this assumes the £3m loan repaid this week is repeated every week. If repayments were to drop to £80 / week I am looking at 84 weeks.
I dread to think what the figures look like if you have £50k invested
I would suggest that there are far too many unknowns at present to assume and make calculations. We do not have any data to base QAA , 30 Day , 90 Day possible withdrawal demands on. Maybe less than you assume. The new Isa year may provide investment funds into these accounts and improve liquidity. I would expect that AC are working on initiatives or strategies to also improve the current difficulties and resolve the situation. After a period of time all this could look so different. Investors are fickle. Today's opinions and views can change.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Mar 29, 2020 14:02:39 GMT
At all material times since the QAA launched on Sept 8th 2015 Assetz have described account withdrawals as a queue. Prior to launch chris described the behaviour " It's a first in first out queue." ... Well, I see it there is a fundamental flaw in the model, the clock can't be turned back to prevent large fund in the access account and AC has decided to change on behalf of 38,000 investors. Imagine the first queue is £30 million fund in the 30DAA, and everyone else queuing behind it.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 29, 2020 14:10:16 GMT
There has been absolutely no advantage to Assetz by changing the terms and conditions of the access accounts that have been in place for 4.5 years. None whatsoever. Zero.
There's no advantage to Assetz at all they have made decisions to the benefit of lenders and borrowers. No payments from borrowers means no income for Assetz. As to change of terms. UNDER NORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS. After the debacle of the recent platform failures they would have made sure they were on sound legal ground before making the decisions. Complain as much as we like it's done and dusted and won't change. The T+C's described what would happen when nomal market conditions ended.
What imaginary comments are you hearing in your head that you are responding to? There is no benefit to borrowers either.
"No payments from borrowers means no income for Assetz" is correct but this has nothing to with the access accounts operating as a queue or a pool. Does it?
After the recent platform failures Assetz should be well aware of what happens when trust evaporates.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Mar 29, 2020 14:10:43 GMT
There has been absolutely no advantage to Assetz by changing the terms and conditions of the access accounts that have been in place for 4.5 years. None whatsoever. Zero.
There's no advantage to Assetz at all they have made decisions to the benefit of lenders and borrowers. No payments from borrowers means no income for Assetz. As to change of terms. UNDER NORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS. After the debacle of the recent platform failures they would have made sure they were on sound legal ground before making the decisions. Complain as much as we like it's done and dusted and won't change. I've no doubt from a legal point of view they can probably do what they want due to some blanket clause in the T&C's, but if so the changes they make should take into account all parties concerned. Are they for the benefit of lenders? - some lenders yes, some lenders no. Without being a borrower I have no idea if they have made any changes for their benefit. In contrast to AC, other p2p platforms seem to be managing this crisis rather well and will no doubt come out of it stronger and be in a good position to pick up business from those that fall by the wayside.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 29, 2020 14:13:23 GMT
At all material times since the QAA launched on Sept 8th 2015 Assetz have described account withdrawals as a queue. Prior to launch chris described the behaviour " It's a first in first out queue." ... Well, I see it there is a fundamental flaw in the model, the clock can't be turned back to prevent large fund in the access account and AC has decided to change on behalf of 38,000 investors. Imagine the first queue is £30 million fund in the 30DAA, and everyone else queuing behind it. Well let's hope the entity with £30 Million unlawfully stuck doesn't decide to commence legal action.
Had Assetz not changed things then no one would have a legitimate cause for complaint as "for almost 5 years we've been telling you what would happen when normal market conditions stop".
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Mar 29, 2020 14:15:20 GMT
I think your sentiment is correct, but I'm not certain I would describe it as bailing out.
I have about £2.5k in the QAA and received about £130 repayment last week. So if you assume:
- the rush for the door was w/e 15th
- withdrawl was suspended for w/e 22nd
- £130 repaid w/e 29th (mainly due to 1 large redemption)
If we stick with a very rosy analysis I should get £130 for the next 2 weeks, at which point the 30 day tidal wave of withdrawls will join the pool. Assuming this is a similar amount to the QAA withdrawls, I will then get £65 for the next 7 weeks before the 90 day account tsunami hits the pool. I am then down to £43 / week. Overall it will take 48 weeks for a small investor to get repaid, and this assumes the £3m loan repaid this week is repeated every week. If repayments were to drop to £80 / week I am looking at 84 weeks.
I dread to think what the figures look like if you have £50k invested
I would suggest that there are far too many unknowns at present to assume and make calculations. We do not have any data to base QAA , 30 Day , 90 Day possible withdrawal demands on. Maybe less than you assume. The new Isa year may provide investment funds into these accounts and improve liquidity. I would expect that AC are working on initiatives or strategies to also improve the current difficulties and resolve the situation. After a period of time all this could look so different. Investors are fickle. Today's opinions and views can change. Maybe you could enlighten us as to who this ISA investor is who would be willing to put £20k into an account that immediately locks up his money and then provides him access to it at around £50 per week whilst gradually lumping him into all the lower quality/defaulted loans of those exiting before him?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 29, 2020 14:26:59 GMT
I would suggest that there are far too many unknowns at present to assume and make calculations. We do not have any data to base QAA , 30 Day , 90 Day possible withdrawal demands on. Maybe less than you assume. The new Isa year may provide investment funds into these accounts and improve liquidity. I would expect that AC are working on initiatives or strategies to also improve the current difficulties and resolve the situation. After a period of time all this could look so different. Investors are fickle. Today's opinions and views can change. Maybe you could enlighten us as to who this ISA investor is who would be willing to put £20k into an account that immediately locks up his money and then provides him access to it at around £50 per week whilst gradually lumping him into all the lower quality/defaulted loans of those exiting before him? It would be a brave platform that allowed a new investor to put money in to a "Quick Access Account" which had no reasonable prospect of giving quick access for the forseeable future. Needs to be some quick thinking from AC what to do. I suppose options would include: - starting a "QAA2" - perhaps at a lower interest rate - starting a whole separate set of access accounts - restricting new investments to the MLA - doing nothing and hoping new investors don't mind their money being tied up (the current situation - given that I think new money can still go into the QAA)
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 29, 2020 14:34:01 GMT
Or go full Lendy and remove interest from queued withdrawals  |
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tonyr
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Post by tonyr on Mar 29, 2020 14:59:34 GMT
It's better than that - you can buy all my loan parts at 10% discount - that should double your returns over the next year or so! I keep buying little bits... only have a limited amount of funds available for the purpose though, so largely limited to the speed at which existing loans are repaying or other funds are released from elsewhere (including from any other platforms/investments that don't have sufficiently good re-investment opportunities themselves).
I think some of the heavy discounts are from people who overestimate how fast the market can react to the availability of such bargains... as of 24 March when bg last posted the relevant chart, discounted loans were overall being bought up (or delisted) faster than new ones were being listed for sale, but it just takes time to clear the backlog... As per my comment on that thread, there's just no point in listing masses for sale right now - they aren't selling. So the apparent backlog clearing is an illusion. I've had a few hundred sell at 10% discount - they will never clear - maybe because nobdy is putting in new money to buy.
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Post by gravitykillz on Mar 29, 2020 15:18:25 GMT
Lending works charged a variable fee for withdrawal.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 29, 2020 15:52:00 GMT
There has been absolutely no advantage to Assetz by changing the terms and conditions of the access accounts that have been in place for 4.5 years. None whatsoever. Zero.
There's no advantage to Assetz at all they have made decisions to the benefit of lenders and borrowers. No payments from borrowers means no income for Assetz. As to change of terms. UNDER NORMAL MARKET CONDITIONS. After the debacle of the recent platform failures they would have made sure they were on sound legal ground before making the decisions. Complain as much as we like it's done and dusted and won't change. Would you have a similar attitude if I was to pull out a gun and shoot one of your family? I assume in that scenario the last thing on you mind would be to let sleeping dogs lie, and in fact you would be screaming for justice.
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Mar 29, 2020 15:59:09 GMT
If AC had let the queue be a queue it would be stuck with some big lenders' withdrawals now.
Some of the quick ones here may have got their treasures out before that.
All others would be hit or complaining by now and that's many more.
It may well have been fairer to repay according to funds invested, but that may not have
avoided the previous point as wealth is exponentially distributed
and given they now repay on a head count base as for trading in the MLA, that may just have
been easier to implement.
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