p2pfan
Member of DD Central
Full-Time Investor
Posts: 781 
Likes: 889
Member is Online
|
Post by p2pfan on Mar 30, 2020 18:37:39 GMT
Today the repaid #1194 has been proccesed. I am keeping daily records. Fact: Out of my principal in #1194 I received less than 17%, meaning AC kept more than 83% of my money without my consent (repaid and given back borrower). This is practically bailing out small investors (large number of them), as people in the forum have described earlier. This is also going against my option to withdraw both principal and interest on repayment (which AC changed without my consent). Let people have phylosophical discussions and so on. I am stating the fact of today simply. Beyond unfair and never written in T&C. I am sorry to hear about your experience. That is a massive hit. How has it come about that you have only made 17% of what you were due on this loan?
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,043 
Likes: 4,437
|
Post by agent69 on Mar 30, 2020 18:51:00 GMT
Today the repaid #1194 has been proccesed. I am keeping daily records. Fact: Out of my principal in #1194 I received less than 17%, meaning AC kept more than 83% of my money without my consent (repaid and given back borrower). This is practically bailing out small investors (large number of them), as people in the forum have described earlier. This is also going against my option to withdraw both principal and interest on repayment (which AC changed without my consent). Let people have phylosophical discussions and so on. I am stating the fact of today simply. Beyond unfair and never written in T&C. I am sorry to hear about your experience. That is a massive hit. How has it come about that you have only made 17% of what you were due on this loan? It has come about due to a lack of understanding of how the access accounts work.
There are lots of legitimate complaints regarding changes made by AC to the witdrawl mechanism, but not getting capital repaid from specific loans is not one of them.
|
|
alexk
Posts: 17
Likes: 26
|
Post by alexk on Mar 30, 2020 21:00:55 GMT
In short access accounts are a big pool of money - liquidity. Which AC used for loans. (E.g. top up loans etc.)
In normal conditions, this pool is significantly larger than actual loans. So for example, AC needed only 2m but the pool was 5m instead. Which means that 3m is "available", the liquidity. Each investor in that pool has the same holdings proportionally, so for this example, 40% (so 40% of what you see allocated). But also that gave the "fast access to cash" from that 3m.
Now, what happened is that there no, or very low liquidity. Which means no fast access (instant, 30d or 90d). The 3m of the example is gone, people took money out. It also means in this example that this remaining 2m is matched almost 1:1 (if not, there would be liquidity, i.e. people could get money out). So now when you see xxx holding in loan #, it should be close to the real holding (your principal in that loan).
|
|
alexk
Posts: 17
Likes: 26
|
Post by alexk on Mar 30, 2020 21:03:41 GMT
The 17% came from keeping daily track of loans. See that #1194 had been repaid, and the ratio of how much was transferred to my cash account to how much was my allocated principal for #1194.
|
|
bg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 1,929
|
Post by bg on Mar 31, 2020 7:15:49 GMT
In short access accounts are a big pool of money - liquidity. Which AC used for loans. (E.g. top up loans etc.) In normal conditions, this pool is significantly larger than actual loans. So for example, AC needed only 2m but the pool was 5m instead. Which means that 3m is "available", the liquidity. Each investor in that pool has the same holdings proportionally, so for this example, 40% (so 40% of what you see allocated). But also that gave the "fast access to cash" from that 3m. Now, what happened is that there no, or very low liquidity. Which means no fast access (instant, 30d or 90d). The 3m of the example is gone, people took money out. It also means in this example that this remaining 2m is matched almost 1:1 (if not, there would be liquidity, i.e. people could get money out). So now when you see xxx holding in loan #, it should be close to the real holding (your principal in that loan). The liquidity has actually increased a lot since they stopped withdrawals. it was around £2m in cash when they froze it but is up to around £7m now, due mainly to repayments.
|
|
jlend
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 1,465
|
Post by jlend on Mar 31, 2020 7:25:19 GMT
In short access accounts are a big pool of money - liquidity. Which AC used for loans. (E.g. top up loans etc.) In normal conditions, this pool is significantly larger than actual loans. So for example, AC needed only 2m but the pool was 5m instead. Which means that 3m is "available", the liquidity. Each investor in that pool has the same holdings proportionally, so for this example, 40% (so 40% of what you see allocated). But also that gave the "fast access to cash" from that 3m. Now, what happened is that there no, or very low liquidity. Which means no fast access (instant, 30d or 90d). The 3m of the example is gone, people took money out. It also means in this example that this remaining 2m is matched almost 1:1 (if not, there would be liquidity, i.e. people could get money out). So now when you see xxx holding in loan #, it should be close to the real holding (your principal in that loan). The liquidity has actually increased a lot since they stopped withdrawals. it was around £2m in cash when they froze it but is up to around £7m now, due mainly to repayments. Increase to fund tranche drawdowns?
|
|
Mikeme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 428
Likes: 331
|
Post by Mikeme on Mar 31, 2020 7:41:23 GMT
Keeping it aside to invest alongside government investment?
|
|
bg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 1,929
|
Post by bg on Mar 31, 2020 7:48:49 GMT
The liquidity has actually increased a lot since they stopped withdrawals. it was around £2m in cash when they froze it but is up to around £7m now, due mainly to repayments. Increase to fund tranche drawdowns? Yeah most likely - although I imagine most drawdowns are now on hold.
|
|
sapphire
Member of DD Central
Posts: 489
Likes: 413
|
Post by sapphire on Mar 31, 2020 9:59:17 GMT
In short access accounts are a big pool of money - liquidity. Which AC used for loans. (E.g. top up loans etc.) In normal conditions, this pool is significantly larger than actual loans. So for example, AC needed only 2m but the pool was 5m instead. Which means that 3m is "available", the liquidity. Each investor in that pool has the same holdings proportionally, so for this example, 40% (so 40% of what you see allocated). But also that gave the "fast access to cash" from that 3m. Now, what happened is that there no, or very low liquidity. Which means no fast access (instant, 30d or 90d). The 3m of the example is gone, people took money out. It also means in this example that this remaining 2m is matched almost 1:1 (if not, there would be liquidity, i.e. people could get money out). So now when you see xxx holding in loan #, it should be close to the real holding (your principal in that loan). The liquidity has actually increased a lot since they stopped withdrawals. it was around £2m in cash when they froze it but is up to around £7m now, due mainly to repayments.Can I ask how the £7m amount was arrived at? My calc (based on the loans allocated in my QAA and the Total QAA amount of £63,929,770 displayed on the panel) suggests the current Total QAA cash bal is around £2.7m, so wondering if I am working this out incorrectly?
|
|
bg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 1,929
|
Post by bg on Mar 31, 2020 10:24:56 GMT
The liquidity has actually increased a lot since they stopped withdrawals. it was around £2m in cash when they froze it but is up to around £7m now, due mainly to repayments.Can I ask how the £7m amount was arrived at? My calc (based on the loans allocated in my QAA and the Total QAA amount of £63,929,770 displayed on the panel) suggests the current Total QAA cash bal is around £2.7m, so wondering if I am working this out incorrectly? I'm talking about the total in all the access accounts (as it is all one pool) so its now £214,225,000 and there is 4.33% 'cash' which means there is currently £9.3m.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Mar 31, 2020 11:30:28 GMT
In short access accounts are a big pool of money - liquidity. Which AC used for loans. (E.g. top up loans etc.) As I understand it, AC had previously maintained a legal fiction that it was NOT a single pool of money - that each investor in the access accounts was considered to be directly invested in each of the underlying loans, and that each transaction initiated by an individual investor triggered many thousands of transactions behind the scenes to rebalance everyone's account.
Under this legal fiction, it would seem entirely appropriate that each person who had a withdrawal request should have that withdrawal request fulfilled by any new money that comes in from repayments etc., with only those who do NOT have an active withdrawal request having their share of the repayment kept available for new loans etc (but immediately redistributed pro-rata to other investors).
However, AC appear now to have abandoned this legal fiction, and are operating the account according to the rules of a pooled investment.
It's unclear whether abandoning this legal fiction will also undermine the basis on which the Access Accounts are regulated as a form of P2P investment, rather than as a pooled investment...
|
|
