mark
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Post by mark on Mar 28, 2020 21:50:49 GMT
I have been investing in Assetz Capital since 2013. The last few weeks have been finacially 'interesting' to say the least. As with all previous financial events over the recent decades,the dot com bubble burst of 2001/02, the global banking crisis of 2008/09 or other earlier financial crisis, there is a pattern than runs through all the early stages, panic.
In every instance, as difficult as it is to focus on fundaments, in regard to a investmemt choice, opinions as unfounded or as misinformed as they are can be 'panic' investors into making decisions that do, but should not have to, cost them dearly by either dumping shares and cystalising losses or possibly cystalising losses in P2P by selling discounted loan parts or rushing to withdraw funds from P2P to place their funds in an irrational, knee jerk, fear of missing out, unresearched investment.
From low risk and good returns ( where restrictions on liquidity could be a blessing in disguise ) to the unknown, due to other's opinions.
Opinions are just opinions, unaware of all the issues and detail, and instant. Company action does and should take time to action.
Opinion can instigate sheep like, irrational, crowd behavior sometimes to exploit other investors and othertimes just because they can.
Not my opinion for you to follow, but based on experience of at least the last three financial events I will be not be making any knee jerk decisions. In a month or three, there should be more clarity and information to enable my measured and balanced financial decisions.
For the time being, on balance, I still see Assetz Capital one of the safest and secure place for my investments with ongoing good returns on my investments in difficult times
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Post by aidanw on Mar 28, 2020 22:01:00 GMT
Please invest some more money then, so I get mine out.  |
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Mar 28, 2020 23:15:15 GMT
... Opinion can instigate sheep like, irrational, crowd behavior sometimes to exploit other investors and othertimes just because they can. ... Interesting thoughts and I agree with some of what you say. The problem as I see it is that if you are caught up in the middle of a stampede then it's very hard to see far enough to be able to tell whether the crowd is successfully escaping a fire or (less helpfully) about to fall off a cliff. Sometimes running with the herd is the right (or least bad) thing to do. Other times it really isn't. And we will only find out when its too late to change our minds! FWIW I'm certainly not in the business of dumping loans at massive discounts, but that may be because I have the luxury of not having to. I appreciate that some who have sailed closer to the wind than perhaps they should might decide that getting out now may be their only option.
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Post by scepticalinvestor on Mar 29, 2020 7:19:04 GMT
... The problem as I see it is that if you are caught up in the middle of a stampede then it's very hard to see far enough to be able to tell whether the crowd is successfully escaping a fire or (less helpfully) about to fall off a cliff. Sometimes running with the herd is the right (or least bad) thing to do. Other times it really isn't. And we will only find out when its too late to change our minds Well put ceejay. Only hindsight and the fullness of time will tell whether Mark's opinion turns out to be right or wrong. In the meantime, my opinion is that the lucky ones are those investors who pulled out in time and now have the luxury of watching from the sidelines and reinvesting if/when things return to normal. Unfortunately I wasn't quick/ prescient enough to be one of them but stuck in the queue/pool like the rest.
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tonyr
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Post by tonyr on Mar 29, 2020 7:40:01 GMT
For the time being, on balance, I still see Assetz Capital one of the safest and secure place for my investments with ongoing good returns on my investments in difficult times It's better than that - you can buy all my loan parts at 10% discount - that should double your returns over the next year or so!
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on Mar 29, 2020 8:33:24 GMT
I have been investing in Assetz Capital since 2013. The last few weeks have been finacially 'interesting' to say the least. As with all previous financial events over the recent decades,the dot com bubble burst of 2001/02, the global banking crisis of 2008/09 or other earlier financial crisis, there is a pattern than runs through all the early stages, panic. In every instance, as difficult as it is to focus on fundaments, in regard to a investmemt choice, opinions as unfounded or as misinformed as they are can be 'panic' investors into making decisions that do, but should not have to, cost them dearly by either dumping shares and cystalising losses or possibly cystalising losses in P2P by selling discounted loan parts or rushing to withdraw funds from P2P to place their funds in an irrational, knee jerk, fear of missing out, unresearched investment. From low risk and good returns ( where restrictions on liquidity could be a blessing in disguise ) to the unknown, due to other's opinions. Opinions are just opinions, unaware of all the issues and detail, and instant. Company action does and should take time to action. Opinion can instigate sheep like, irrational, crowd behavior sometimes to exploit other investors and othertimes just because they can. Not my opinion for you to follow, but based on experience of at least the last three financial events I will be not be making any knee jerk decisions. In a month or three, there should be more clarity and information to enable my measured and balanced financial decisions. For the time being, on balance, I still see Assetz Capital one of the safest and secure place for my investments with ongoing good returns on my investments in difficult times If you invest in the MLA you may be able to pick up some bargains but you will need to a very good at accessing risk especially as the experts cannot do this in the current situation.
If you invest in the AA accounts you will be buying loans which are worth less than what you are paying for them and less than they were a few weeks to get the same interest rate, it will be like investing in a trust which is in trouble, it is running at a premium holding assets which at best will come back to par at worst who knows and there is no way you can sell your shares in the trust.
Compare this to a number of shares in establish companies paying considerable higher returns with assets well below the value of the company or even investment trust in the same position. Many of these have a track record of surviving many more times than AC has existed. There is no chance of being locked in, rules changed without the agreement of the investors and you can also sell all of you holding any time.
Unfortunately getting out or at least trying to does not look like irrational behaviour.
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alanh
Posts: 556
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Post by alanh on Mar 29, 2020 10:05:39 GMT
All platforms are experiencing withdrawals in the current environment and those with secondary markets are also witnessing loans being offered for sale at a discount. This is to be expected given whats going on and is obviously affecting all asset classes not just p2p. The problem in Assetz case is that they have compounded these industry wide problems by changing their account rules, penalising large investors and locking their money up whilst using pooled funds to bail out small investors. Assetz no longer treats everyone on a level playing field, and hence they are likely to experience much more significant redemptions than they otherwise would have.
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Mikeme
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Post by Mikeme on Mar 29, 2020 10:18:42 GMT
All platforms are experiencing withdrawals in the current environment and those with secondary markets are also witnessing loans being offered for sale at a discount. This is to be expected given whats going on and is obviously affecting all asset classes not just p2p. The problem in Assetz case is that they have compounded these industry wide problems by changing their account rules, penalising large investors and locking their money up whilst using pooled funds to bail out small investors. Assetz no longer treats everyone on a level playing field, and hence they are likely to experience much more significant redemptions than they otherwise would have. Diddums. 
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 29, 2020 10:23:49 GMT
All platforms are experiencing withdrawals in the current environment and those with secondary markets are also witnessing loans being offered for sale at a discount. This is to be expected given whats going on and is obviously affecting all asset classes not just p2p. The problem in Assetz case is that they have compounded these industry wide problems by changing their account rules, penalising large investors and locking their money up whilst using pooled funds to bail out small investors. Assetz no longer treats everyone on a level playing field, and hence they are likely to experience much more significant redemptions than they otherwise would have. Those with the intelligence to be able to understand this post will appreciate the long-term damage Assetz have done to the Trust that investors have in their platform which has been severely impaired.
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Post by lynnanthony on Mar 29, 2020 10:31:51 GMT
Diddums.
I'm sure your helpful contribution is much appreciated.
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Mikeme
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Post by Mikeme on Mar 29, 2020 10:36:16 GMT
Diddums.
I'm sure your helpful contribution is much appreciated. Toilet roll analogy again. Got lots of money first in the queue and buy the lot. Sod the rest. Is that better?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 29, 2020 10:44:05 GMT
All platforms are experiencing withdrawals in the current environment and those with secondary markets are also witnessing loans being offered for sale at a discount. This is to be expected given whats going on and is obviously affecting all asset classes not just p2p. The problem in Assetz case is that they have compounded these industry wide problems by changing their account rules, penalising large investors and locking their money up whilst using pooled funds to bail out small investors. Assetz no longer treats everyone on a level playing field, and hence they are likely to experience much more significant redemptions than they otherwise would have. I think your sentiment is correct, but I'm not certain I would describe it as bailing out.
I have about £2.5k in the QAA and received about £130 repayment last week. So if you assume:
- the rush for the door was w/e 15th
- withdrawl was suspended for w/e 22nd
- £130 repaid w/e 29th (mainly due to 1 large redemption)
If we stick with a very rosy analysis I should get £130 for the next 2 weeks, at which point the 30 day tidal wave of withdrawls will join the pool. Assuming this is a similar amount to the QAA withdrawls, I will then get £65 for the next 7 weeks before the 90 day account tsunami hits the pool. I am then down to £43 / week. Overall it will take 48 weeks for a small investor to get repaid, and this assumes the £3m loan repaid this week is repeated every week. If repayments were to drop to £80 / week I am looking at 84 weeks.
I dread to think what the figures look like if you have £50k invested
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 29, 2020 10:51:49 GMT
I'm sure your helpful contribution is much appreciated. Toilet roll analogy again. Got lots of money first in the queue and buy the lot. Sod the rest. Is that better? At all material times since the QAA launched on Sept 8th 2015 Assetz have described account withdrawals as a queue.
Prior to launch chris described the behaviour "It's a first in first out queue."
If you are incapable of comprehending the lack of trust that flows from a company changing it's terms and conditions after almost 5 years of repeatedly stating the same strategy then I'm afraid you are beyond redemption.
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Mikeme
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Post by Mikeme on Mar 29, 2020 11:07:54 GMT
Toilet roll analogy again. Got lots of money first in the queue and buy the lot. Sod the rest. Is that better? At all material times since the QAA launched on Sept 8th 2015 Assetz have described account withdrawals as a queue.
Prior to launch chris described the behaviour "It's a first in first out queue."
If you are incapable of comprehending the lack of trust that flows from a company changing it's terms and conditions after almost 5 years of repeatedly stating the same strategy then I'm afraid you are beyond redemption.
I don't understand I'm a stupid old man! OH I forgot its written "in normal market conditions" However when one sold loans on MLA there was a similar queue but not first in first out.
I would be thinking of how AC can save the majority of our capital before a few bob of interest.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Mar 29, 2020 11:10:21 GMT
All platforms are experiencing withdrawals in the current environment and those with secondary markets are also witnessing loans being offered for sale at a discount. This is to be expected given whats going on and is obviously affecting all asset classes not just p2p. The problem in Assetz case is that they have compounded these industry wide problems by changing their account rules, penalising large investors and locking their money up whilst using pooled funds to bail out small investors. Assetz no longer treats everyone on a level playing field, and hence they are likely to experience much more significant redemptions than they otherwise would have. Diddums. Useful comment mikeme. Maybe you should just carry on in the alternative reality where Assetz Capital is "one of the safest and secure places for your investments" and leave the rest of the discussion to the adults.
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