borofan
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Post by borofan on May 5, 2020 13:11:59 GMT
I'm no expert, and for the sake of my health! I'm not following all P2P news minute by minute, but whilst my funds at RS and LW look a bit dicey, Zopa seem to be doing OK, as they did in the 2008 crash.
So despite their relatively low rates (I get early adopters bonus) have Zopa proven themselves to be the safest P2P?
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Post by carol167 on May 5, 2020 13:15:37 GMT
Ask again in a few months time..... but they're certainly the most experienced.
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on May 5, 2020 14:26:11 GMT
I would suggest you look at the % of Lates in your Loan Book as an indication of how Zopa are doing in your case...
May be it is just my LB selection by my lates are now well in excess of 11% versus 2.5% 6 weeks ago..
Obviously they may not default, but it is far too early to tell.
That said lates have in the past been a reasonably good early predictor of defaults. (Having been with Zopa for nearly 8 years). If is of course possible that this time is different and all the lates will catch up when things go back to normal. When being the question nobody really knows...
So at the moment I would say Zopa have not proven anything positive in my case, but may be you have very few lates (as a %)...
W35
p.s. Incidentally I don't think any of the P2P guys are doing well and personally I am exiting them all. I suspect P2P in 2 years will be very different and much smaller as an industry..
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aju
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Post by aju on May 5, 2020 14:33:25 GMT
I'm no expert, and for the sake of my health! I'm not following all P2P news minute by minute, but whilst my funds at RS and LW look a bit dicey, Zopa seem to be doing OK, as they did in the 2008 crash. So despite their relatively low rates (I get early adopters bonus) have Zopa proven themselves to be the safest P2P? They are the oldest of the P2P domain, in the uk at least. I also am an early adopter and to be honest the covid-19 situation may be survivable but since the last 12 months has been one of steadily increasing defaults - we had quite a large portfolio of £10 loans and also had made a large sale to furnish RS ISA's early last fin year so defaults are to be expected I feel - but over the last 8-9 months they became more and more a situation of nearly wiping out ones monthly returns. So we have taken the decision to bail out of all non protected loans not that PF is a given either. The defaults effect was getting too edgy before covid-19 hit but recently seeing a very large percentage of covid-19 fall out (arrangements increased from 8 in feb to over 400 in Mar and April and Zopa is using the arrangement entity for the relief where p-0eople need it) I decided that it's time to beat a somewhat hasty but far too slow for comfort retreat. For us, having been in Z since the start, and considering ourselves understanding how everything P2P worked, not losing any actual capital but getting close to it even before cv gave some concern. I made the decision slightly late on 17th March and it actually took until nearly the end of April to even start selling anything. Additionally the MRA is quite a hit but even with that and the built up returns over previous years we are well safe Capital wise. I did consider just removing capital funds and leaving the interest earnt behind but other than leaving our PF covered loans which are now in 3 figures we are getting the funds back into a safer place albeit with much lower returns. I do agree the very recent issues with RS and their PF cover reductions meant I have applied to remove funds there too but only got them in yesterday so I reckon that might be quite a wait but hey ho. Perhaps things will improve over the next month or two economy/business wise who knows but I'm not that well endowed with funds that I want to take the chances anymore. To be fair if Mrs Aju hadn't been banging on about the no fscs covered money at the start I may have kept them going longer. What with the dump in overall interest rates its getting harder and harder to defend against Inflation Tax - although I've a feeling that will be down too over the next few months as well. time will tell. That's our position and many on here will know that I always worked on a beat inflation and a point or 2 on top with our lending so If we come out of the bubble relatively unscathed then we'll be ok.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 5, 2020 14:54:58 GMT
Ask again in a few months time..... but they're certainly the most experienced. Lets hope they know how to ward off the covid effect better than they know how to build/update websites otherwise we are all doomed.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 5, 2020 15:32:45 GMT
I would suggest you look at the % of Lates in your Loan Book as an indication of how Zopa are doing in your case... May be it is just my LB selection by my lates are now well in excess of 11% versus 2.5% 6 weeks ago.. Obviously they may not default, but it is far too early to tell. That said lates have in the past been a reasonably good early predictor of defaults. (Having been with Zopa for nearly 8 years). If is of course possible that this time is different and all the lates will catch up when things go back to normal. When being the question nobody really knows... So at the moment I would say Zopa have not proven anything positive in my case, but may be you have very few lates (as a %)... W35 p.s. Incidentally I don't think any of the P2P guys are doing well and personally I am exiting them all. I suspect P2P in 2 years will be very different and much smaller as an industry.. I'm guessing you have similar to our experience. I've attached a graphic of our loan stats as of yesterday in our ISA that we are bailing out of now. Unfortunately the covid arrangements cannot be sold not sure about all arrangements. They do represent quite a bit of funds that are stuck.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 5, 2020 16:48:00 GMT
Undoubtedly these are turbulent times for all of the finance industry - and for everyone - but we invest for the long term. Let’s see where we are in five or ten years. Id concur with this approach to certain extent, however, once a default is baked in then its lost. Zopa mitigates this by having 2 returns figures, probably after regs rules forced them to have 2. The thing is the average returns figures are quite different and in fact many people investing more recently would probably be struggling to get the average figures let alone the headline ones. Once a default is baked in it's never going to lift itself up. In our case the defaults were getting perilously close to eating into current capital in the last few months even though I have early adopter as well. Things did look like they might have started to normalise after our sales a year ago however the covid situation makes a bit of a difference for me in that I am not convinced that the world is going to be changing much very soon. Whilst I am trying to sell arrangements will not sell as they are covid relief items that cannot be sold under Zopa's terms until this status is lifted and the borrowers start paying again. I'm hoping you are right with these loans and things will pull back soon but this is 1 in 100 years issue and who knows if it will pull back at all, I have everything possible crossed just in case!. In P2P due to the average figures its also clear that someone has to get the higher returns as others get the lower returns. I guess some of us are just not happy to risk our money for such low returns that are being delivered for many.(Not as low as the banks I might add but at least with the the banks the only risk is that Inflation tax withers away ones nest egg)
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on May 5, 2020 16:53:40 GMT
Ask again in a few months time..... but they're certainly the most experienced. Lets hope they know how to ward off the covid effect better than they know how to build/update websites otherwise we are all doomed. Indeed Zopa's website is to be polite rubbish... (Edit : In a formal complaint to Zopa about the issue I did explicitly use the word rubbish in reference to their website) For the last 4 months and ongoing Zopa have to email to me my cvs file loan books (at the end of each working day) because it is impossible (due to time outs) to down load it (the back paging trick does not work incidentally I have tried many many times). It does cover just over 29,000 micro loan entries... Zopa tell me it is due to the size of my loan book. I cannot even view the summary pages of my loan book and indeed the website regularly bumps me out to the login screen when I try to withdraw (access my money button) albeit that issue worked today. Zopa did say the issue will be fixed when they roll out the "next generation" website which is meant to happen when they roll out the Bank at some indeterminate point in the future.. But in the interim I have to have the files sent by a daily email from a nice customer services chap... That is another reason I am exiting , Zopa tell me it works for investors with smaller loan books.. Which is good to hear. Indeed I want others to continue with Zopa so I can sell my loans to them (with MRA's)..
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aju
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Post by aju on May 5, 2020 17:08:14 GMT
Lets hope they know how to ward off the covid effect better than they know how to build/update websites otherwise we are all doomed. Indeed Zopa's website is to be polite rubbish... For the last 4 months and ongoing Zopa have to email to me my cvs file loan books (at the end of each working day) because it is impossible (due to time outs) to down load it (the back paging trick does not work incidentally I have tried many many times). It does cover just over 29,000 micro loan entries... Zopa tell me it is due to the size of my loan book. I cannot even view the summary pages of my loan book and indeed the website regularly bumps me out to the login screen when I try to withdraw (access my money button) albeit that issue worked today. Zopa did say the issue will be fixed when they roll out the "next generation" website which is meant to happen when they roll out the Bank at some indeterminate point in the future.. But in the interim I have to have the files sent by a daily email from a nice customer services chap... That is another reason I am exiting , Zopa tell me it works for investors with smaller loan books.. Which is good to hear. Indeed I want others to continue with Zopa so I can sell my loans to them (with MRA's).. I feel your pain on the LB, I'm managing both our accounts - ssh don't tell anyone! - and I certainly have to use the back button everytime for LB and sometimes for Statements data. Both current and allitme are an issue. The back button works most times for me still but sometimes i resort to using the hard page links I have as well. I'm not convinced of the "next generation" website and Zopa knows it as I usually ask them not to bother triaging my initial emails with this one anymore. Recently I've been struggling with eMails after withdrawals and they have told me quite a few times that they have reset the relevant process and it should be ok. I keep sending them each time I get an email 6 days after the 4 figure sums have hit our accounts. The seem to struggle with how this might be an FCA issue and keep passing it on up to their "Investor Tribe"! (What is it with these tribe thingies does it make them more proficient in software design - experience says they are failing in that one if that was the desired effect). The loanbook is not the only thing where this happens an empty monthly statements file has the same issues for me. Just getting to the interim loanbook page is causing me problems too but again.
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Post by stevexxx on May 7, 2020 22:50:06 GMT
For me its still ticking over, interest is very low now but better then the banks. I'm not reinvesting and gradually pulling money out to re-balance things, a way better option than selling out... I still have faith in all my investments and dont expect to make anything over the next few months but things will get back to normal and p2p will thrive and zopa will provide steady returns in the future...
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on May 8, 2020 9:06:45 GMT
The Zopa website issues continue for me. Zopa have certainly "proven" to me that they are totally incapable of providing a stable website.
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Post by erniec on May 8, 2020 11:02:07 GMT
wapping35I would also check (when you can) for data inconsistencies. Check whether your current total is different when comparing the dashboard with the current statement.
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on May 8, 2020 12:05:00 GMT
Yep the data is consistently inconsistent.
Zopa (came from Andrew Lawson before he left Zopa) told me some years back, that is why they make those capital adjustment credits, ie to adjust for the continuous errors in the totals. I recall we all got a further adjustment payment in late April.
Not that I can now check since the website does not allow me to look at the LB summary page due to the time out 500 errors etc..
W35
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aju
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Post by aju on May 8, 2020 14:01:51 GMT
The Zopa website issues continue for me. Zopa have certainly "proven" to me that they are totally incapable of providing a stable website. I had that quite a bit today but I just used a link page to the items i wanted E.g. secure2.zopa.com/lender/lending_summary/standard to link to the Invest account summary page secure2.zopa.com/lender/lending_summary/isa to goto ISA summary page I have a list of all the relevant pages and so whichever one I want I usually am still able to get round the 500 errors, although last night around midnight it was particularly slow and failing to even get past the dashboard at the 500 error I just click the link I want and it generally works although the LB is sometimes way more problematic as you say. All of this is using up to date google chrome on a windows 7 PC - I can't be rsed with tablet/mobile access for the kind of detail I need though. One caveat from above if you use seperate links it will break Zopa's rather cumbersome cookie maps will usually force a double login sequence. The way to ensure cookies are fully reset before logging in is to cycle round the Top Left "Zopa" button and the top right right "My Account" button a couple of times always works for me although why Zopa cannot seem to reset the cookies in a more logical manner is beyond me. I agree 1000% that on a good day Zopa is not that great at website flow design and less so at website control skills.
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wapping35
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Post by wapping35 on May 8, 2020 17:21:32 GMT
Thanks aju the work around works albeit slowly. I still get the dashboard page error "Sorry, there is currently a technical problem which may result in some of your products or data not showing correctly." but frankly the dashboard adds zero additional information anyway. Also still getting the 500 error, of course, if I dare to try to look at the LB section but Zopa have told me not to bother trying and just use the cvs files they manually send every evening (working days). Thanks W35
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