dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 18, 2020 15:59:39 GMT
Discount required to sell £10,000 of Access Account holdings:
Wed 12/08/20 Evening 8%, 9%, 10%
Thu 13/08/20 8am until 8pm 6.6% 9.25% 7.6% 6.8% 8.2% 8.3%
Fri 14/08/20 9am 7.3% Noon 6.5% 5pm 6.0% overnight 6.8%
Sat 15/08/20 8am 6.1% 6pm 6.6%
Sun 16/08/20 8am 6.0% 6pm 6.6%
Mon 17/08/20 9am 6.3% Noon 6.8% 5pm 6.6%
Tue 18/08/20 9am 6.5% 5pm 6.0%
Wed 19/08/20 9am 6.3% Noon 6.0% 5pm 6.0% Thu 20/08/20 9am % Noon % 5pm %
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Aug 18, 2020 20:51:06 GMT
Before the secondary market came in all par repayments were applied to the earliest withdrawal first.
My experience today is repayments are applied against my most recent targets, which makes some sense as it leaves your oldest positions, which may be moving to the head of a queue to sell.
Ed. 22.8.20 It's not clear to me any more which positions are being repaid as the date I was using till now is suddenly being updated by AC as well as me, confusing the issue.
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Aug 19, 2020 15:58:40 GMT
Discount required to sell £10,000 of Access Account holdings:
Wed 12/08/20 Evening 8%, 9%, 10%
Thu 13/08/20 8am until 8pm 6.6% 9.25% 7.6% 6.8% 8.2% 8.3%
Fri 14/08/20 9am 7.3% Noon 6.5% 5pm 6.0% overnight 6.8%
Sat 15/08/20 8am 6.1% 6pm 6.6%
Sun 16/08/20 8am 6.0% 6pm 6.6%Mon 17/08/20 9am 6.3% Noon 6.8% 5pm 6.6%
Tue 18/08/20 9am 6.5% 5pm 6.0% Wed 19/08/20 9am 6.3% Noon 6.0% 5pm 6.0%
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 19, 2020 16:11:41 GMT
Discount required to sell £10,000 of Access Account holdings:
Wed 12/08/20 Evening 8%, 9%, 10%
Thu 13/08/20 8am until 8pm 6.6% 9.25% 7.6% 6.8% 8.2% 8.3%
Fri 14/08/20 9am 7.3% Noon 6.5% 5pm 6.0% overnight 6.8%
Sat 15/08/20 8am 6.1% 6pm 6.6%
Sun 16/08/20 8am 6.0% 6pm 6.6%Mon 17/08/20 9am 6.3% Noon 6.8% 5pm 6.6%
Tue 18/08/20 9am 6.5% 5pm 6.0% Wed 19/08/20 9am 6.3% Noon 6.0% 5pm 6.0%
Thu 20/08/20 9am % Noon % 5pm %Presumably this is the bids - not the deals. Through the day (Weds) the best offer has generally been 5.5% discount and the best bid has been 6%. Offers well over £1k at 5.6% have been taken today, thank you.
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rogedavi
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Post by rogedavi on Aug 19, 2020 18:02:11 GMT
I think if you are going to monitor it it would be nice to see bid/offer/mid rather than just best bid.
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Aug 19, 2020 19:00:21 GMT
I think if you are going to monitor it it would be nice to see bid/offer/mid rather than just best bid. Surely there's just one price and no spread?
Given the vocal majority is wanting to sell, that's what I've been testing, offer £10K to sell and see what discount gets it all sold.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 19, 2020 21:15:02 GMT
I think if you are going to monitor it it would be nice to see bid/offer/mid rather than just best bid. Surely there's just one price and no spread?
Given the vocal majority is wanting to sell, that's what I've been testing, offer £10K to sell and see what discount gets it all sold.
You are seeing the bids that sit on the system, but not actually making an offer to see what gets taken. The offers today sat at 5.5% and so if you wanted to buy £10k you would have to test-bid that. The spread was 0.5 %. Offers actually made above 5.5% were taken. I sold quickly at 5.6%, even though the system said I needed to offer 6% to sell immediately. Perhaps bids made below 6% were taken (I was not buying). So the mid price was probably 5.75% Best to test sell £10k and test buy £10k and call that the spread. £1k might be better.
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rogedavi
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Post by rogedavi on Aug 20, 2020 6:51:42 GMT
the spread in itself is an important indicator of liquidity
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Aug 20, 2020 8:22:36 GMT
£1,000 buy / sell
Thu 20/08/20 9am 5.7% / 6.0%
5pm 5.8% / 6.0% Fri 21/08/20 9am 5.8% / 5.9%
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Post by angel19 on Aug 20, 2020 8:47:58 GMT
There is no spread on these deals. You are just seeing the same price from two perspectives, that of the buyer and that of the seller. If I spend £100 and get £106 worth of investment I am up 6%. If I sell £106 and get £100 I am down 5.7% (rounded). But same deal.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 20, 2020 9:04:19 GMT
There is no spread on these deals. You are just seeing the same price from two perspectives, that of the buyer and that of the seller. If I spend £100 and get £106 worth of investment I am up 6%. If I sell £106 and get £100 I am down 5.7% (rounded). But same deal. Erm, no. If there were no spread then that implies you could buy and immediately re-sell at the same price. Try doing that on the AA SM and see if you come out with the same £ cash as you started. In this case, investing £1000 at the best-available buying discount of 5.7% gets you £1060.45 of QAA "units". To sell these again immediately at the best-available selling discount of 6.0% nets you just £996.82
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Post by angel19 on Aug 20, 2020 9:06:55 GMT
There is no spread on these deals. You are just seeing the same price from two perspectives, that of the buyer and that of the seller. If I spend £100 and get £106 worth of investment I am up 6%. If I sell £106 and get £100 I am down 5.7% (rounded). But same deal. Erm, no. If there were no spread than that implies you could buy and immediately re-sell at the same price. Try doing that on the AA SM and see if you come out with the same £ cash as you started. Sorry to disagree. What you are describing is simply market movement.
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johni
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Post by johni on Aug 20, 2020 9:31:28 GMT
There is no spread on these deals. You are just seeing the same price from two perspectives, that of the buyer and that of the seller. If I spend £100 and get £106 worth of investment I am up 6%. If I sell £106 and get £100 I am down 5.7% (rounded). But same deal. Erm, no. If there were no spread then that implies you could buy and immediately re-sell at the same price. Try doing that on the AA SM and see if you come out with the same £ cash as you started. In this case, investing £1000 at the best-available buying discount of 5.7% gets you £1060.45 of QAA "units". To sell these again immediately at the best-available selling discount of 6.0% nets you just £996.82 The only way there can be a spread is if Assetz are taking a fee is this what you are saying as Assetz were very clear there would be no fee for selling.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Aug 20, 2020 9:32:05 GMT
Erm, no. If there were no spread than that implies you could buy and immediately re-sell at the same price. Try doing that on the AA SM and see if you come out with the same £ cash as you started. Sorry to disagree. What you are describing is simply market movement. I don't think I'd describe it as spread or simply movement. It's not "spread" in the usual sense of that term - which AIUI refers to the practice of, say, some Unit Trusts to have a different buy and sell price at a single point in time. What we have here are two queues - a line of sellers with a best selling price at the front, and a line of buyers with a best buying price at the front. At any given time there will always be a gap between the two - otherwise the deal would have been done. If we're trying to track the movement of the market, which I think this thread is for, then a simple option would be to give both prices (best offer and best bid) or, simpler, the average of the two. This would still be an oversimplification, of course, without knowing the volumes behind those bids/offers (an enticing offer to sell 0.01 doesn't mean very much) but it's a lot more work to ferret that out.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 20, 2020 9:35:56 GMT
Sorry to disagree. What you are describing is simply market movement. What we have here are two queues - a line of sellers with a best selling price at the front, and a line of buyers with a best buying price at the front. At any given time there will always be a gap between the two - otherwise the deal would have been done. If we're trying to track the movement of the market, which I think this thread is for, then a simple option would be to give both prices (best offer and best bid) or, simpler, the average of the two. This would still be an oversimplification, of course, without knowing the volumes behind those bids/offers (an enticing offer to sell 0.01 doesn't mean very much) but it's a lot more work to ferret that out. ... which is exactly what dead-money has done, by posting the current Best Offer and Best Bid prices for trading £1000. Those two prices are most definitely NOT the same, there currently being a 0.3% "gap" between them. Most traders would call that gap the "bid - offer spread". If they WERE the same, then the AC system would have matched them instantly. [I previously posted here an example of how PropertyPartner's SM neatly displays much the same situation graphically)
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