dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Oct 22, 2020 17:49:44 GMT
Doesn’t answer my long winded confusing question. Probably my bad for phrasing it poorly. I’m interested in understanding why the discounts might or might not narrow more quickly for the greater good. I have no personal interest in increasing my beer money punt on the AAs and will patiently run it down. I’m assuming the monthly interest paid on the 1st of the month is for those who are sticking with the AAs reinvested automatically by buying at a discount. What I’m trying to ascertain is is that happening for the ad-hoc payouts from capital repayments that AC allow to trickle out?Sounds like it might not be, but I’m looking for a near definitive, authorative answer backed up by line items in statements. Because if AC aren’t doing that they are are missing a “trick” to narrow the discounts; a piecemeal individual buyback at discounts cf share buybacks, IT buybacks. Might not be straightforward from an IT, nor regulatory, nor tax accounting perspective but it’s a freebie for reducing the size of the hole they’ve dug for all of us and improves the attractiveness of the AAs for holders. Sorry, still not understanding. You get your monthly interest regardless of your status wrt withdrawal. But if you'd had an adhoc repayment then that amount will be sitting in cash and so not earning interest. Deees 'The silent majority' don't have withdrawals set so don't manually recycle capital repayments; no withdrawal set = no visible capital repayment.
What does occur is that 'the system' reinvests any capital repayments on behalf of the silent majority back into the Access account. You can see this effect as any lots you have up for sale at a discount, instead of being matched by half a dozen lenders, get matched against ~2500 lenders at micro amounts.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Oct 23, 2020 18:10:28 GMT
It's not the smoothest process - I can see why AC might not want to make it too easy. If you want to reinvest [directly] in the same account that you're getting payouts from then you have to cancel the withdrawal request each time you make a reinvestment and then reinstate it immediately. It's a bit of a faff which might or might not be worth it, depending on how much you're prepared to play with and what value you put on your time. You're also going to the back of the queue each time you do that, so this is not appropriate if exiting is in your mind (though of course you can always pop your discount up by 0.1 and you'd be ahead of where you were anyway). IMHO it's much better to re-invest indrectly in the same account.
Funds already invested in the QAA can be transferred to the 30DAA or 90DAA immediately, without using the marketplace, and thus without needing to cancel any withdrawals from those accounts, so one can use the QAA to invest funds, and the 30DAA/90DAA to withdraw them, benefiting from the higher interest rate while waiting for the withdrawal to be processed.
The entire balance of the 30DAA is used to determine each investor's share of each withdrawal, so as long as at least one withdrawal request from the account is active, any fresh deposite have an instant effect on subsequent withdrawals, just like in the QAA.
I think the whole restriction is a cack-handed way of avoiding the need to check that an account is not about to try and sell a loan part to itself. The more obvious sanity check for that would be to say you can't create a marketplace instruction which would cross with any existing instruction of your own (e.g. an instruction to buy at 5% discount when you're already selling at 6% discount), but AC seem notorious for choosing the complicated unintuitive way of doing things when there's a choice...
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Post by Harland Kearney on Oct 23, 2020 20:10:39 GMT
It's not the smoothest process - I can see why AC might not want to make it too easy. If you want to reinvest [directly] in the same account that you're getting payouts from then you have to cancel the withdrawal request each time you make a reinvestment and then reinstate it immediately. It's a bit of a faff which might or might not be worth it, depending on how much you're prepared to play with and what value you put on your time. You're also going to the back of the queue each time you do that, so this is not appropriate if exiting is in your mind (though of course you can always pop your discount up by 0.1 and you'd be ahead of where you were anyway). IMHO it's much better to re-invest indrectly in the same account.
Funds already invested in the QAA can be transferred to the 30DAA or 90DAA immediately, without using the marketplace, and thus without needing to cancel any withdrawals from those accounts, so one can use the QAA to invest funds, and the 30DAA/90DAA to withdraw them, benefiting from the higher interest rate while waiting for the withdrawal to be processed.
The entire balance of the 30DAA is used to determine each investor's share of each withdrawal, so as long as at least one withdrawal request from the account is active, any fresh deposite have an instant effect on subsequent withdrawals, just like in the QAA.
I think the whole restriction is a cack-handed way of avoiding the need to check that an account is not about to try and sell a loan part to itself. The more obvious sanity check for that would be to say you can't create a marketplace instruction which would cross with any existing instruction of your own (e.g. an instruction to buy at 5% discount when you're already selling at 6% discount), but AC seem notorious for choosing the complicated unintuitive way of doing things when there's a choice...
Is this true? I've tried doing this but I can't, I was under the belief that the loan must be SOLD first, then reinvested. Hence it must be piled in the queue to actually get it into the 90 daa. (This is a HMRC rule, not a AC one) Maybe I'm mis-reading something, it is late!
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Post by angel19 on Oct 23, 2020 21:27:46 GMT
IMHO it's much better to re-invest indrectly in the same account.
Funds already invested in the QAA can be transferred to the 30DAA or 90DAA immediately, without using the marketplace, and thus without needing to cancel any withdrawals from those accounts, so one can use the QAA to invest funds, and the 30DAA/90DAA to withdraw them, benefiting from the higher interest rate while waiting for the withdrawal to be processed.
The entire balance of the 30DAA is used to determine each investor's share of each withdrawal, so as long as at least one withdrawal request from the account is active, any fresh deposite have an instant effect on subsequent withdrawals, just like in the QAA.
I think the whole restriction is a cack-handed way of avoiding the need to check that an account is not about to try and sell a loan part to itself. The more obvious sanity check for that would be to say you can't create a marketplace instruction which would cross with any existing instruction of your own (e.g. an instruction to buy at 5% discount when you're already selling at 6% discount), but AC seem notorious for choosing the complicated unintuitive way of doing things when there's a choice...
Is this true? I've tried doing this but I can't, I was under the belief that the loan must be SOLD first, then reinvested. Hence it must be piled in the queue to actually get it into the 90 daa. (This is a HMRC rule, not a AC one) Maybe I'm mis-reading something, it is late! You can withdraw from QAA to 30DAA and the transfer happens straight away. So you can earn a tad more interest while waiting for some liquidity.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Oct 24, 2020 11:47:04 GMT
Is this true? I've tried doing this but I can't, I was under the belief that the loan must be SOLD first, then reinvested. Hence it must be piled in the queue to actually get it into the 90 daa. (This is a HMRC rule, not a AC one) Maybe I'm mis-reading something, it is late! You can withdraw from QAA to 30DAA and the transfer happens straight away. So you can earn a tad more interest while waiting for some liquidity. How can you do this, I can't seem to find the button? Thanks!
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Post by angel19 on Oct 24, 2020 11:54:00 GMT
You can withdraw from QAA to 30DAA and the transfer happens straight away. So you can earn a tad more interest while waiting for some liquidity. How can you do this, I can't seem to find the button? Thanks! I go to Withdraw on the QAA Account, then in the To Account drop down box I select 30DAA.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Oct 24, 2020 16:49:23 GMT
How can you do this, I can't seem to find the button? Thanks! I go to Withdraw on the QAA Account, then in the To Account drop down box I select 30DAA. I do it the opposite way - use the "invest" button on the 30DAA, and select QAA as the "From account". I guess it does the same thing behind the scenes either way.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Oct 25, 2020 8:47:47 GMT
Mon 19/10/20 9am 6.7% / 7.1% - 7.2% Tue 20/10/20 9am 6.4% / 7.2% 9pm 6.1% / 6.9%
Wed 21/10/20 9am 6.2% / 6.4% - 6.6% Thu 22/10/20 9am 6.2% / 6.6% Fri 23/10/20 9am 6.1% / 6.3% - 6.7% Sat 24/10/20 10am 6.2% / 6.3% - 6.5%
Sun 25/10/20 9am 6.1% / 6.6% - 6.9%
Now have zero balance in QAA accounts  Exit achieved without taking an overall loss. 
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Oct 25, 2020 11:37:58 GMT
Now have zero balance in QAA accounts Exit achieved without taking an overall loss. Is that “no loss” because of offsetting with interest earned or from AA trading on top of existing initial holdings; buying @ x+bit% and selling @ x-bit% ? No loss as sell discount of 6.0 - 6.1% offset by interest earned 4.1% - 3.75% over time held. Overall positive return.
(Capital gains from AA flipping I've accounted for separately.)
Still hold 30D and 90D but happy for that to trickle out capital repayments for reinvestment into MLA.
Will add to MLA as and when new development loans come down the pipeline.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Oct 26, 2020 13:59:25 GMT
Discounts now at 5.6% / 5.8% (for £10K). I wonder if the drop has been caused by some of the £4m loan #227 repayment hitting the AA SM.
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Doc
Member of DD Central
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Post by Doc on Oct 26, 2020 15:48:43 GMT
Discounts now at 5.6% / 5.8% (for £10K). I wonder if the drop has been caused by some of the £4m loan #227 repayment hitting the AA SM. Must be close to the lowest discount on record, the auto reinvest seems to have completed now, up to 5.7% - 5.9% now, still quite a lot lower than last week though.
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bod
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Post by bod on Oct 26, 2020 19:02:23 GMT
Sold £10k at 5.6 and another £10k at 5.5 today.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Oct 26, 2020 23:42:27 GMT
Looks like it'll soon be reaching the point where I'll actually need to think about what minimum discount I want to keep buying at.
... or alternatively it's the scheduled time for AC to send "That Email, part 2", in order to bounce the discounts back up again!
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Oct 27, 2020 7:56:30 GMT
Sold £10k at 5.6 and another £10k at 5.5 today. Interesting. I’m guessing that’s not far off the costs, including adjustments, of selling on Zopa. Levels the playing field? i suspect that if the stock market crumbles in the next few weeks risk appetite will go down and discounts go up.
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Oct 27, 2020 8:35:06 GMT
Sold £10k at 5.6 and another £10k at 5.5 today. Interesting. I’m guessing that’s not far off the costs, including adjustments, of selling on Zopa. Levels the playing field? i suspect that if the stock market crumbles in the next few weeks risk appetite will go down and discounts go up. Or maybe investors will turn to property and discounts will go down. Much better to move here before the stock market crumbles, don't you think?
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Exit achieved without taking an overall loss. 
