ian
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Post by ian on Dec 16, 2020 17:23:33 GMT
Got shut of a couple of grand @ 2.5% 👍
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Post by gobuchul on Dec 16, 2020 17:55:12 GMT
I have a few thousand set to sell at 2.5%. Hopefully it will quickly work it's way through the 2.5% queue to me.
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ian
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Post by ian on Dec 16, 2020 19:55:46 GMT
I think those wanting out desperate for cash are gone .... discounts will fall away unless investors have a better alternative
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Dec 17, 2020 9:45:31 GMT
I think the same. Anything over 2% discount still represents 6+ months of "free interest", and there's the traditional seasonal effect to consider too (typically P2P secondary market rates drop over the Xmas / New Year period as lenders continue to reinvest their repayments without new loans being available)
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Post by Ace on Dec 17, 2020 10:17:09 GMT
I think the same. Anything over 2% discount still represents 6+ months of "free interest", and there's the traditional seasonal effect to consider too (typically P2P secondary market rates drop over the Xmas / New Year period as lenders continue to reinvest their repayments without new loans being available) Shouldn't that have the opposite effect?
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alender
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Post by alender on Dec 17, 2020 10:40:29 GMT
Imagine what would happen if the excess money in the AAs was paid out to investors as requested. Some will be recycled back at a discount, confidence would grow as investors would believe they are in accounts where there is a decent chance of access to their funds and not stuck in Hotel California accounts which would mean more money placed back in the accounts.
Also as there would be less idle money handing about in these accounts the interest rate could be raised with no cost to AC as there will be the same income for less money and there will be even more confidence so more money entering the accounts.
The discounts could disappear, new money would enter the accounts and lending could be restarted, a win win for everyone except the flippers.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Dec 17, 2020 11:19:57 GMT
Antcipation of a restart to lending is most likely the driving factor in this "rally". Paying out excess cash ear marked for future lending will strip that possbility and risk would start increasing.
No new lending = 1. No end to lender fees in foreseeble future 2. A trend to concentration of toxic loans, the longer this goes on the more likely we'll have to use PF to pay interest to cover all bad loans with no new loan interest payments incoming. 3. Little to no top ups of the PF
All of these increase risk and will increase discounts. I still don't expect AC to be lending at any great rate until at least early Spring, but its clear lenders are antcipating it postively.
I am not sure how interests can be raised in this envioment to Lenders, not without new lending ironically. A BoE rate change is really the only way we'll see higher rates, its just not feasible for them to be higher along with PF contributions. (point 2)
Without coming across as too rude Alender (and my post isn't actually directed at you so much, just the on going debate here about cash payouts in general) "confidence would grow as investors would believe they are in accounts where there is a decent chance of access to their funds and not stuck in Hotel California accounts which would mean more money placed back in the accounts."
This comments suggests that all new investors are looking to exit. New money going into the accounts is not looking to exit, this doesn't make sense. New money is looking to invest in a range of loans which are not in run off, which are adding new loans to portfilio, paying old debt back and topping up the PF. Those are the only things which will drive the discounts or liquidity to PAR. Once new investors money outweighs the demands to fulfill new loans than withdrawals will be honoured (or if discount is low enough for anyone). I find it hard to argue against the longeivity of investors, over those who wish to exit now at the expense of the future of the whole portfilio. (by exit now, i mean 10% of your money back now, with the possbility of the other 90% suffering considerble capital loss as the whole thing comes crashing down) No new loans would be nothing but a disaster, and we will be run off. Being locked in for 5+ years on some loans is not out of the question at that point.
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Post by gobuchul on Dec 17, 2020 13:43:44 GMT
Just sold £3k at 2.5%
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rscal
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Post by rscal on Dec 17, 2020 13:57:05 GMT
2.4/2.1 is the current spread [14.00 17/12/20]
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jlend
Member of DD Central
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Post by jlend on Dec 17, 2020 14:13:59 GMT
We may see a chunk of Ratesetter lender cash go into the Access accounts following the sale of the Ratesetter property portfolio...
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dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Dec 17, 2020 14:45:10 GMT
May well do, although i suspect a chunk may appear in other p2p platforms. And some in fscs safe places
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on Dec 17, 2020 15:26:58 GMT
Without coming across as too rude Alender (and my post isn't actually directed at you so much, just the on going debate here about cash payouts in general) " confidence would grow as investors would believe they are in accounts where there is a decent chance of access to their funds and not stuck in Hotel California accounts which would mean more money placed back in the accounts." This comments suggests that all new investors are looking to exit. New money going into the accounts is not looking to exit, this doesn't make sense. New money is looking to invest in a range of loans which are not in run off, which are adding new loans to portfilio, paying old debt back and topping up the PF. Those are the only things which will drive the discounts or liquidity to PAR. Once new investors money outweighs the demands to fulfill new loans than withdrawals will be honoured (or if discount is low enough for anyone). I find it hard to argue against the longeivity of investors, other those who wish to exit now at the expense of the future of the whole portfilio. (by exit now, i mean 10% of your money back now, with the possbility of the other 90% suffering considerble capital loss as the whole thing comes crashing down) No new loans would be nothing but a disaster, and we will be run off. Being locked in for 5+ years on some loans is not out of the question at that point.You are not rude at all, you have one opinion and I have another.
Unfortunately with the SM there is no new money entering the accounts and I would suggest that all lenders are looking to exit at some point (who invests their money for ever) and without this option there will be many people reluctant to invest. There is no guarantee to get your money back via the SM and who know how long the SM will last.
I can understand the argument for new loans and it is a good one but it should not be using the only source of funds (because of the SM) available for investors to exit as in the T&Cs, after all these were sold as Access Accounts and designed to use excess funds as a way to give access, this will be another fundamental change to way these accounts operate if investors are locked in using their repayments against their wishes and instructions for new business.
It now boils down to either use funds which were earmarked (before lock in) for repayments and restore some faith in AC to carry out investors instructions and try to turn these back to Access Accounts or take this money against many investors wishes (we know this because the amount of money trying to exit) to try to improve the health of these accounts. You will not restore access if you deliberately lock up excess funds in new business while there are many people trying to get their money long after the access period has expired.
We have still a long way to go before we are out of the financial side of this crisis and there is no guarantee AC will make prudent choses with our money and even if they did there could still be loses due to future state of the economy.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Dec 17, 2020 15:35:58 GMT
I broadly agree with the rest of your post, I'm very very aware of the thin line AC are walking with not repaying loans directly to loan holders and instead withholding it for future loans. As somebody not looking to exit my ISA, that is clearly why my bias is hinged on health, rather than exit.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Dec 17, 2020 15:50:16 GMT
Slices sold at 2.4% discount today, so the Exit is wide open for anyone who really wants it.
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rscal
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Post by rscal on Dec 17, 2020 16:02:01 GMT
What would investors make of there being a permanent discount applied once AC acts as the counter-party to AA withdrawals, amounting to a fee? I'm imagining '0.9%' for same day withdrawals or '0.65%' for 30 days and '0.5%' for 90 days, say?
I chose '0.9' as being under the psychological 'barrier' of 1% of course! It also corresponds to a figure already in use at AC!
This could only apply in conditions under which the management charge was first removed - or set back to 0 again (although the interest rate being settable by AC makes that a bit moot) perhaps?
How would '4%' pa with 30 days access losing you about 60 days interest sound?
Or '4.5% pa' (assuming some uptick in the differential) with 90 days access costing 40 days interest? [All 'back of an envelope' musings of course]
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