james100
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Post by james100 on Nov 10, 2021 12:25:35 GMT
The EU was on its way to becoming a totalitarian state ,governed by a group of self electing bureacrats . It had morphed from an agreeble trading arrangement to a greedy self perpetuating monster. Of course leaving is a bumpy ride and those who benefited from the organisation are disgruntled. Time to dismantle the glass palace and build a better one . But most of this could equally apply to our current government and polls suggest the profile of people who typically voted for Brexit are pretty OK with that. Incidentally, has Owen Paterson's Lordship been announced yet and how is Geoffrey Cox's suntan getting on?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 10, 2021 14:00:13 GMT
"Totalitarian" in what way? Please give examples. the Parliament can only adopt or amend legislation proposed by the council, it is usually presented with a choice of one candidate to approve for roles. Yes, Westminster has private members' bills. But how many private members' bills make it through Westminster to legislation? Answer - vanishingly few. The big difference is that the commissioners (the equivalent of ministers), who propose legislation, are not simply appointed by the personal whim of the leader of the governing party. Unlike their counterparts at Westminster. And, as a result, any member can work with the relevant commissioner to bring forward a bill. That never happens in Westminster, because ministers are inherently political. Their appointment is a consensus decision by all MEPs, no matter their political view. Each country's government proposes one candidate for commissioner - and, yes, they can be rejected by MEPs when they are elected. There's usually one or two rejected at "interview" each time round, simply for being lacklustre - but in 2019, two were rejected before they even got that far, because of conflicts of interest. And, of course, you'd NEVER get ministers at Westminster being accused of having conflicts of interest... Oh, no... Heaven forfend. www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/26/meps-reject-two-eu-commissioner-candidatesOh, and let's not forget the upper house at Westminster. 783 totally unelected members (vs 650 elected MPs), all of whom were appointed for life by the PM of the day... except for the 92 who are there solely because of accidents of birth, and 26 who are there solely because they are bishops. Every single piece of legislation has to get past them, too... And, yes, members of the HoL can be ministers, too. There have been multiple occasions where people have been ennobled for the prime purpose of becoming ministers - most recently Zac Goldsmith, failed London mayoral candidate amidst accusations of racist campaigning, and ennobled in 2019 immediately after failing to get re-elected as an MP. Most recently in the headlines for making his rather opulent Spanish holiday property (600 acres, helipad, two pools, £25k/week when let commercially, ownership via multiple off-shore trusts and companies) available to the PM, a gift which the PM is refusing to declare in the register of members' interests... Now, which sounds more "totalitarian" to you?
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 10, 2021 15:54:56 GMT
I guess it depends on which side of the Channel your bread was buttered. Me,I prefer french toast a l'anglais and, surprisingly, so do an awful lot over others in the EU, who view it as bloated money pit. I was on a survey ship in the China Docks in Malta when the Polish Crew heard that they had been accepted into the EU . They were throwing us all in the air with joy. Now they can't wait to move on .
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 10, 2021 16:26:33 GMT
I was on a survey ship in the China Docks in Malta when the Polish Crew heard that they had been accepted into the EU . They were throwing us all in the air with joy. Now they can't wait to move on . Here's a bit of an overview as to the basic problem between the EU and the current Polish government. www.ft.com/content/4f2d9e44-c5c9-4a48-ae2f-35531e7f9b3bSimple version: The EU have said "No, judges and law have to take priority over political whim", in the context of forthcoming elections which the not-at-all ironically named "Law and Justice" party may not win... The election results have to be certified by the courts. Now, why would the government and judiciary disagree over whether to certify election results? Oh, yes, and also in the context of the government's persecution of minorities. The UK government is also threatening to "correct" judicial rulings it doesn't like, if you recall... Now, which side of that sounds closer to "totalitarianism"?
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 10, 2021 21:45:49 GMT
Ask a Polish Taxi Driver.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 10, 2021 22:14:32 GMT
Ask a Polish Taxi Driver. Ask him what? If he'd rather be back in the 1980s? Or the 1990s? He must have a short memory... Is his taxi still an FSO, for a start? No, thought not. Post-communism inflation of 250% had fallen to only about 100% in 2000, with unemployment rocketing from an official zero at the fall of communism, to a peak of just over 20% prior to the 2004 accession... It's currently a bit over 5%. GDP per capita, baselined at 100 in 1989 : To put that into actual currency, they've gone from $1,700 GDP/capita in 1990 (vs $19k for the UK and $22.3k for Germany), just shy of $7k in 2004 (vs $41k for the UK and $34k for Germany), to $16k today (vs $41k for the UK and $47k for Germany). Poland's done really rather nicely out of being an EU member...
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 10, 2021 23:16:11 GMT
Ask a Polish Taxi Driver. Poland's done really rather nicely out of being an EU member... I agree entirely, and for some time they were the EU's biggest net beneficiary, in fact. Many countries - not just Poland - made a really healthy killing out of their membership. But, that money had to come from somewhere... meaning someone else was obviously going without. Spain was another key recipient of the EU largesse. Like Poland, they've done rather nicely out of the club too. I was amazed by the quality of their roads, especially in the holiday islands, with their EU flag symbols signifying who'd paid for them. Have you seen the state of our roads? Just saying...
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Nov 11, 2021 8:49:34 GMT
I remember driving down the western side of Portugal in 1986 in our Hymer motorhome. The main road was a thin layer of tarmac over the original cobbles so mainly potholes. Years later it was replaced by a beautiful new motorway paid for by the existing EU members. The only problem is that there was no money for maintenance so last time we went there it was in a bad state of repair.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 11, 2021 9:12:45 GMT
Poland's done really rather nicely out of being an EU member... I agree entirely, and for some time they were the EU's biggest net beneficiary, in fact. Many countries - not just Poland - made a really healthy killing out of their membership. But, that money had to come from somewhere... meaning someone else was obviously going without. Hardly "going without". I'm really not sure the £2.70/week/capita contribution the UK made to the EU, 1% of all UK central government expenditure - less than a quarter of the cost of the track and trace fiasco alone - made a very big difference... That 40p/day is starting to look like very good value, when you look at what we actually got in terms of trading opportunities, etc... Didn't Oscar Wilde say the definition of a cynic was somebody who knew the price of everything, but the value of nothing? But the UK doesn't need to listen to him, a foreign homosexual, anyway...? <shags flag> Yep, shocking, aren't they? NL, Sweden, Germany, Denmark all had much higher per-capita net contributions to the EU budget than the UK... yet their roads all seem way better than ours. Strange, eh? Well, not really. That's because it's deliberate UK government policy to let our infrastructure crumble... "Austerity". Our county council has had so much stripped from their budget by central government over the last decade that they're £100m behind where they would have been - on road maintenance alone. NL, Sweden, Germany, Denmark all had much higher per-capita net contributions to the EU budget than the UK... yet their roads all seem way better than ours. Bizarre. I remember driving down the western side of Portugal in 1986 in our Hymer motorhome. The main road was a thin layer of tarmac over the original cobbles so mainly potholes. Years later it was replaced by a beautiful new motorway paid for by the existing EU members. The only problem is that there was no money for maintenance so last time we went there it was in a bad state of repair. Odd. We drove to, and spent time driving around, Portugal in 2011 and 2017. I don't remember any issues with the roads either time.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 11, 2021 9:25:55 GMT
Ask a Polish Taxi Driver. Ask him what? If he'd rather be back in the 1980s? Or the 1990s? He must have a short memory... Is his taxi still an FSO, for a start? No, thought not. Post-communism inflation of 250% had fallen to only about 100% in 2000, with unemployment rocketing from an official zero at the fall of communism, to a peak of just over 20% prior to the 2004 accession... It's currently a bit over 5%. GDP per capita, baselined at 100 in 1989 : To put that into actual currency, they've gone from $1,700 GDP/capita in 1990 (vs $19k for the UK and $22.3k for Germany), just shy of $7k in 2004 (vs $41k for the UK and $34k for Germany), to $16k today (vs $41k for the UK and $47k for Germany). Poland's done really rather nicely out of being an EU member...So has Cornwall, but that didn't stop them voting for Brexit.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 11, 2021 9:29:29 GMT
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 11, 2021 17:10:30 GMT
Our roads are sh&te because we have a terrific concentration of population using them. Oh and wrong prioritising of council finance. A few years ago we dug up every road to a school so that children could receive broadband to play with and so deal with the crumbling trench . Thank you Mr Blair. Just step into the open spaces in Wales and its tarmac heaven until you hit Swansea. Smaller tractor use and less people.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 11, 2021 19:12:13 GMT
Our roads are sh&te because we have a terrific concentration of population using them. You've never been to Nordrhein-Westfalen or NL, have you? Council funding has been cut so far that the only things they are still spending on are the legal requirements. Reinstating the road surface would have been the responsibility of the private-sector infrastructure installers. I'd guess it wasn't Openreach, but a private-sector cable/fibre provider? If you mean Tony, then it's 14 years since he was in power. You should have a look at the roads round here in the arse end of nowhere... Sheep outnumber people, yet potholes you could lose a tractor down. Half the local A-road is still barriered off after Storm Dennis...
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 12, 2021 10:15:01 GMT
'You've never been to Nordrhein-Westfalen or NL, have you?'
Actually, I have. NL flat...no comparison except with UK Fens...a good driving area ,was in Kings Lynn last month for the festival.
Also Nordrhein-Westfalen had a flood shock that will give them the pot hole problems that we face EVERY year (and yes,I do visit as have a relative in Paderborn) .
Actually, the roads there are sh*te too. I was shocked as I thought 'Germany' would be efficient . Found it was not so.Work ethic but no talent or inspiration to direct effort to excellence.
The Blair trench has been crumbling unrepaired for15 years . It took three irish navies to dig the one from Clun to Newcastle School (5miles) Between them they kept the local pub open at lunchtimes (it closed when they finished the job after18months work). The trench survived in better condition than the rest of the road , a large section has landslid and remains halfclosed for almost 2years. Landslide due to pig ignorant english farmer not clearing drains every year and now refusing access to his land to effect major rebuild.
'You should have a look at the roads round here in the arse end of nowhere...'
I cross the Teme at Knighton and the Welsh side is beaut black tarmac all the way to Newtown...
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 12, 2021 12:38:34 GMT
Yep, shocking, aren't they? NL, Sweden, Germany, Denmark all had much higher per-capita net contributions to the EU budget than the UK... yet their roads all seem way better than ours. Strange, eh? Well, not really. That's because it's deliberate UK government policy to let our infrastructure crumble... "Austerity". Our county council has had so much stripped from their budget by central government over the last decade that they're £100m behind where they would have been - on road maintenance alone. Deliberate policy? That would be sheer lunacy. You don't believe that, surely? Why would any governing body do that? There has to be another explanation, like we've been spending far too much on the welfare state, or defence, or the NHS, or education, or the EU, or........ Time to rebalance. Where would you make the cuts which enabled more to go to county councils? The ~£9bn we've been handing the EU each year might be a start. That should give the 300-odd England county & district, etc councils £20m each, with a big chunk left over for Scotland, Wales and NI. I know that's simplistic, but what services would you cut in order to fund the councils fully? Or should we raise taxes even higher? I'm no economist and have no idea what the answer is, but I just cannot accept that premise above.
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