adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 12, 2021 13:02:05 GMT
Yep, shocking, aren't they? NL, Sweden, Germany, Denmark all had much higher per-capita net contributions to the EU budget than the UK... yet their roads all seem way better than ours. Strange, eh? Well, not really. That's because it's deliberate UK government policy to let our infrastructure crumble... "Austerity". Our county council has had so much stripped from their budget by central government over the last decade that they're £100m behind where they would have been - on road maintenance alone. Deliberate policy? That would be sheer lunacy. You don't believe that, surely? Why would any governing body do that? . You'd have to spread it a lot thinner than that. There's 333 local authorities in England. That's 24 county councils. And underneath some of them, there's 181 district councils. Then there's 58 unitary authorities and 36 metropolitan districts. Then there's 32 London boroughs under the GLA. And the City of London. And the Scilly Isles. www.gov.uk/guidance/local-government-structure-and-electionsSo the £21m each would just about take them back to the 2008 funding levels, overall, but only because council tax income has risen - it would not be enough to replace the cuts in central funding. www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/local-government-funding-england But, remember, that £9bn is a very big number, but it's just 1% of total central government expenditure... (Oh, and then there's the minor detail that the £9bn non-existent £18bn was already promised to the NHS on a bus. And since brexit has cost more than it "saved"...) In 2008, central government spent £620bn. In 2019, it was £850bn. Yet less money made its way to local authorities... So surely the question is which areas of expenditure increased so rapidly? Even then, total central government expenditure fell as a proportion of GDP... www.gov.uk/government/statistics/public-spending-statistics-release-february-2020/public-spending-statistics-february-2020#trends-in-public-spending
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 12, 2021 13:17:42 GMT
Deliberate policy? That would be sheer lunacy. You don't believe that, surely? Why would any governing body do that? . There really are only three possibilities. 1. They don't know. 2. They know but don't actually understand. 3. They know, and they do understand, so it can only be deliberate. So if you don't think it's the last, which do you lean towards? Incompetence or ignorance?
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 12, 2021 14:22:45 GMT
There really are only three possibilities. 1. They don't know. 2. They know but don't actually understand. 3. They know, and they do understand, so it can only be deliberate. So if you don't think it's the last, which do you lean towards? Incompetence or ignorance? Sorry, I'd adjusted the number of councils just before your previous reply above. How about, 4. They know, but don't know which area(s) of expenditure to cut. Whatever they choose, it won't be popular. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. You raise an interesting point with, "Which areas of expenditure increased so rapidly?". Do you know the answer, and why?* I strongly suspect the NHS, which now seems a massive money pit with a very poor return. *EDIT: Ok, from chart 2 of your link, it looks like it's health (the only area that's doubled in that time frame), so perhaps the NHS is indeed the first candidate for reduction.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 12, 2021 14:24:08 GMT
As someone who has worked in Local Government
We had an agreement for cross Council purchasing ( ie a consortium)
To my knowledge various departments in those councils still employed procurement staff who would phone email etc various other suppliers to try to get a better price, I Know of one spending several hours to get a price 5% lower on 100 pencils. A waste of tax payer money, At least one of these procurement departments now has a "social media Officer"
The IT procurement guy in one Department was very happy when he got a batch of PC's cheaper that IT could supply, but then discovered the had no MS office etc licences, and weren't setup for the network. The IT time and materials quote to put it right was over twice what he "saved".
I was once asked to design an IT system for a Department After several hours of meeting and reading a huge spec from the User I asked how many people will this system be for and was told less than 20 ! The result the user was told how to put the data into a spreadsheet.
A senior Manager wanted a group of staff physically near him, He leased ( without anyone else knowledge ) a Suite of offices ( Paid for from various budgets he amalgamated ) a matter of weeks later a strategic review had the staff issued with laptops and working from home, over 2 years later the main IT switch in that suite of offices went down, When IT arrived they discovered the PC's all covered in dust and were told by the caretaker that no-one had been in for at least 18 months.
I could also give examples from the NHS of them paying 5 or 6 times as much for items as they could be purchased for in a shop
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 13, 2021 9:00:51 GMT
How about, 4. They know, but don't know which area(s) of expenditure to cut. Yet total expenditure has risen very rapidly, while total expenditure as a proportion of GDP has fallen sharply... Do you mean this chart? 
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 13, 2021 12:22:05 GMT
The total outstanding on negligence claims is in excess of £80 Billion ( Ok that's spread over many years but ... )
The NHS also spends £4 billion a year on legal fees defending these cases
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 13, 2021 12:34:03 GMT
How about, 4. They know, but don't know which area(s) of expenditure to cut. Yet total expenditure has risen very rapidly, while total expenditure as a proportion of GDP has fallen sharply... Do you mean this chart? That's the one. Although Welfare rose just as steeply during the noughties, they evidently tamed it around 2012, whereas Health has continued to rise. It would seem the obvious candidate to start looking for savings.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 13, 2021 14:15:28 GMT
That's the one. Although Welfare rose just as steeply during the noughties, they evidently tamed it around 2012, whereas Health has continued to rise. It would seem the obvious candidate to start looking for savings. Remember the majority of "welfare" is state pensions. OK, so where would you start cutting the NHS back? What would you put in place to replace it?
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Nov 13, 2021 15:32:58 GMT
Negligence should be a claim on the people who are negligent not the innocent public. I know about employer's liability but maybe the NHS itself could be accessed on an at your own risk basis.
It is interesting to see the massive rise in welfare cost while Brown was in charge of the money, probably by introducing tax credits. It is nearly impossible to remove benefits once they start as Sunak found with the outcry about removal of the temporary £20 per week increase.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 16:43:04 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 13, 2021 17:28:54 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Nov 13, 2021 18:48:36 GMT
Negligence should be a claim on the people who are negligent not the innocent public. I know about employer's liability but maybe the NHS itself could be accessed on an at your own risk basis.
It is interesting to see the massive rise in welfare cost while Brown was in charge of the money, probably by introducing tax credits. It is nearly impossible to remove benefits once they start as Sunak found with the outcry about removal of the temporary £20 per week increase.
My friend N comes from a very well off Surrey family. His father recently died in hospital, possibly of being fat and racist. My friend told me that his mother is now suing the NHS over his death, although he (the son) disproves. Actually, while there the father caught MRSA and that is the reason for suing. I asked the mother what she would mean her victory to achieve? Teach the NHS a lesson to clean up more zealously? No, what she wanted was "to get more money to pass on to my grandchildren".
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 13, 2021 19:40:51 GMT
That's the one. Although Welfare rose just as steeply during the noughties, they evidently tamed it around 2012, whereas Health has continued to rise. It would seem the obvious candidate to start looking for savings. Remember the majority of "welfare" is state pensions. OK, so where would you start cutting the NHS back? What would you put in place to replace it? It's going to take somebody VERY special indeed to solve that one. Other than "too many administrators, too many managers", I wouldn't have a clue. It's now a beast that's beyond taming, as far as I can see.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 13, 2021 20:43:15 GMT
Remember the majority of "welfare" is state pensions. OK, so where would you start cutting the NHS back? What would you put in place to replace it? It's going to take somebody VERY special indeed to solve that one. Other than "too many administrators, too many managers", I wouldn't have a clue. It's now a beast that's beyond taming, as far as I can see. There are more and more expensive treatments available which the NHS may or may not be able to give because of cost, maybe a small payment for appointments might help? Particularly where people don't turn up.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 13, 2021 21:10:23 GMT
It's going to take somebody VERY special indeed to solve that one. Other than "too many administrators, too many managers", I wouldn't have a clue. It's now a beast that's beyond taming, as far as I can see. There are more and more expensive treatments available which the NHS may or may not be able to give because of cost, maybe a small payment for appointments might help? Particularly where people don't turn up. Initially I was quite pro the idea of payments for appointments, or penalty charges for not showing up. Then I spoke to a couple of doctor friends of mine and they lead me to think about:- * My old lady neighbour, who is intimidated by tech (especially crappy NHS tech) and admin, and gets flustered and upset as a result, and fluffs things like appointments. * Somebody who doesn't have English as a first language. * Somebody who has a mental health or substance abuse issue. * A single parent who is trying to juggle work and childcare, with no support, and now needs medical help. * Just... random  that life can throw at you. One of those doctor friends of mine is a psychiatrist. 40% of his appointments are no shows. But, almost by definition, those patients are likely to be vulnerable. And I'm not sure we should be "punishing" people for their vulnerability. Unfortunately (?) I think that this aspect of how the NHS provides the service it does is just a baked in part of the cost. By all means charge the idiots who turn up at A&E with an ingrowing toenail but...
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that life can throw at you.