09dolphin
Member of DD Central
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Post by 09dolphin on Nov 13, 2021 23:32:56 GMT
There are more and more expensive treatments available which the NHS may or may not be able to give because of cost, maybe a small payment for appointments might help? Particularly where people don't turn up. Initially I was quite pro the idea of payments for appointments, or penalty charges for not showing up. Then I spoke to a couple of doctor friends of mine and they lead me to think about:- * My old lady neighbour, who is intimidated by tech (especially crappy NHS tech) and admin, and gets flustered and upset as a result, and fluffs things like appointments. * Somebody who doesn't have English as a first language. * Somebody who has a mental health or substance abuse issue. * A single parent who is trying to juggle work and childcare, with no support, and now needs medical help. * Just... random  that life can throw at you. One of those doctor friends of mine is a psychiatrist. 40% of his appointments are no shows. But, almost by definition, those patients are likely to be vulnerable. And I'm not sure we should be "punishing" people for their vulnerability. Unfortunately (?) I think that this aspect of how the NHS provides the service it does is just a baked in part of the cost. By all means charge the idiots who turn up at A&E with an ingrowing toenail but...
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09dolphin
Member of DD Central
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Post by 09dolphin on Nov 13, 2021 23:39:03 GMT
If people can't be bothered for whatever reason to turn up for an appointment perhaps the NHS should decide they have rejected treatment, do not want treatment and wait for another referral from their GP.
How difficult is it for people to contact a hospital to say sorry, something is more important to me than my appointment or I just can't be bothered to attend.
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Nov 14, 2021 9:01:59 GMT
Other than "too many administrators, too many managers"... Is that really the case?
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 14, 2021 11:25:53 GMT
If people can't be bothered for whatever reason to turn up for an appointment perhaps the NHS should decide they have rejected treatment, do not want treatment and wait for another referral from their GP. How difficult is it for people to contact a hospital to say sorry, something is more important to me than my appointment or I just can't be bothered to attend. Maybe we should go back to the old days when you just turned up and waited. If you looked in and the waiting room was full you tried again the next day, at least no Doctor's or Nurses' time was wasted. If someone turned up obviously seriously unwell they would get shuffled to the front. Edit: I think hospital clinics get round the problem by seriously over booking and then over running by hours!
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Nov 14, 2021 11:35:07 GMT
Initially I was quite pro the idea of payments for appointments, or penalty charges for not showing up. Then I spoke to a couple of doctor friends of mine and they lead me to think about:- * My old lady neighbour, who is intimidated by tech (especially crappy NHS tech) and admin, and gets flustered and upset as a result, and fluffs things like appointments. * Somebody who doesn't have English as a first language. * Somebody who has a mental health or substance abuse issue. * A single parent who is trying to juggle work and childcare, with no support, and now needs medical help. * Just... random that life can throw at you. One of those doctor friends of mine is a psychiatrist. 40% of his appointments are no shows. But, almost by definition, those patients are likely to be vulnerable. And I'm not sure we should be "punishing" people for their vulnerability. Unfortunately (?) I think that this aspect of how the NHS provides the service it does is just a baked in part of the cost. By all means charge the idiots who turn up at A&E with an ingrowing toenail but... I had a friend with substance misuse issues ( Amongst other stuff ), He was dropped from treatment etc because he didn't turn up for 2 consecutive weeks. Why, because his benefits got stopped, and he stole a mars bar, and the magistrates sentenced him to 6 weeks. unfortunately he has a string of previous. No one thought to inform the appropriate people, one thing that did scare me he said cannabis, skunk, and spice are easier to get hold of inside than outside
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Nov 14, 2021 12:55:25 GMT
Other than "too many administrators, too many managers"... Is that really the case? I can remember when hospitals were run by the matron with assistance from the senior consultants. When I was a boy I used to help my father with carving the turkeys on Christmas day for his patients at 3 hospitals. The departments were not covered with posters and notices in those days and there was no need for nurses to spend most of their time dealing with the endless reports they have to do now for every little activity. According to the King's Fund there are 40,470 managers now and 111,563 Central functions FTE staff whatever they may be.
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 14, 2021 14:34:37 GMT
Other than "too many administrators, too many managers"... Is that really the case? You can bet your pension on it. Towards the end of my Civil Service career, the rot was setting in. My department started recruiting "project officers" like they were a threatened species. In no time at all, about a quarter of our staff had the word "project" in their job title. There were project officers, project managers, project administrators, project leaders galore and then another layer on top with "senior" in front... These new people were strutting around with an air of self-importance, having been told how essential they were to the 'new world'. To the old hands, it became a standing joke. Chatting to my department head, the decision to recruit this army of administrators was taken at very senior Whitehall level, well above his head, but he loved it. He said it meant he now had a layer of go-fers below him, so he no longer needed to do any work. Previously he was paid to manage, but now he has a layer in between to do that for him... and to take any blame! Luckily I was a technical specialist and largely isolated from this nonsense, but I found it disgusting. The bright idea was, rather than employing specialists permanently on the books, the department could save taxpayers heaps of money by letting out projects to the private sector, as needed, and controlling them with this newly recruited army. Trouble is, "as needed" has a nasty habit of meaning "continuous", and the mandarins hadn't thought of that. Of course it didn't work. They found they still needed the permanent in-house expertise... and were now saddled with the "project" army on top! Sheer wasteful lunacy, to employ dozens of extra "project" staff to essentially carry out what existing managers were already paid to do - manage projects. Must have looked good for the unemployment figures though.
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Nov 14, 2021 15:27:25 GMT
I can remember when hospitals were run by the matron with assistance from the senior consultants. ...and antibiotics were the cutting edge of medical science. And the average life expectancy was under 70.
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agent69
Member of DD Central
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Post by agent69 on Nov 15, 2021 12:24:59 GMT
Royal Dutch Shell to change their name and relocate their head office to UK.
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 2,624
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Post by keitha on Nov 15, 2021 14:05:50 GMT
You can bet your pension on it. Towards the end of my Civil Service career, the rot was setting in. My department started recruiting "project officers" like they were a threatened species. In no time at all, about a quarter of our staff had the word "project" in their job title. There were project officers, project managers, project administrators, project leaders galore and then another layer on top with "senior" in front... These new people were strutting around with an air of self-importance, having been told how essential they were to the 'new world'. To the old hands, it became a standing joke. Chatting to my department head, the decision to recruit this army of administrators was taken at very senior Whitehall level, well above his head, but he loved it. He said it meant he now had a layer of go-fers below him, so he no longer needed to do any work. Previously he was paid to manage, but now he has a layer in between to do that for him... and to take any blame! Luckily I was a technical specialist and largely isolated from this nonsense, but I found it disgusting. The bright idea was, rather than employing specialists permanently on the books, the department could save taxpayers heaps of money by letting out projects to the private sector, as needed, and controlling them with this newly recruited army. Trouble is, "as needed" has a nasty habit of meaning "continuous", and the mandarins hadn't thought of that. Of course it didn't work. They found they still needed the permanent in-house expertise... and were now saddled with the "project" army on top! Sheer wasteful lunacy, to employ dozens of extra "project" staff to essentially carry out what existing managers were already paid to do - manage projects. Must have looked good for the unemployment figures though. I was outsourced from Local Government to a private company who would do the work cheaper, at the end of 10 years the Council was employing as many staff to Supervise and check the work we did as previously they employed to undertake those tasks. Of course they were paid more than us. I can remember being "pushed" by a "manager" ( I'd call it bullying but ... ) to prioritise one of his projects over others I'd been assigned, it turned out his bonus depended on this particular task being completed on time. I can also distinctly remember being asked to work an Easter weekend to produce some urgent reports that had to be submitted by end of the Tuesday after Easter. I worked my butt off and got it done, and ensured that it was on the appropriate desk on the Tuesday morning. When I rang up midmorning I was told he's taken the day off. This sort of performance was not uncommon in Local Government. I know that a culture of rank still exists so a Senior Administrator would not accept a meeting called by a Project manager it had to be a senior project manager. I can also remember a manager getting his PA to print all his incoming emails every day he would then write a response on the back, and the PA posted it back to the sender !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 16:07:37 GMT
I've just spent the last 30 minutes trying to buy "to busy to die" (or similar name) James Bond DVD from amazon.
It turns out it cannot be shipped to Cornwall
So I've elevated it higher and higher until
"You cannot ship it because of Brexit"
"Nonsense, which wharehouse is it coming from?"
"we don't know until you place an order"
"I can't place and order"
Final discovery. Amazon are setting switches on what can be shipped around the UK and have set some of them wrong and blame Brexit.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 19, 2021 16:24:56 GMT
I've just spent the last 30 minutes trying to buy "to busy to die" (or similar name) James Bond DVD from amazon.
It turns out it cannot be shipped to Cornwall
So I've elevated it higher and higher until
"You cannot ship it because of Brexit"
"Nonsense, which wharehouse is it coming from?"
"we don't know until you place an order"
"I can't place and order"
Final discovery. Amazon are setting switches on what can be shipped around the UK and have set some of them wrong and blame Brexit.
This title will be released on December 20, 2021. (from the site) You may have fired too quickly Mr Bobo (add your own evil villain voice)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 16:55:52 GMT
i know, but they offer pre-release ordering.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 19, 2021 17:14:20 GMT
i know, but they offer pre-release ordering. A few friends and a smartphone and you could make your own - save £10 and help the planet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 17:18:55 GMT
I don't support theft, but after working for Amazon for free for an hour today I can understand why some people do
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that life can throw at you.
