michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Mar 7, 2022 18:06:19 GMT
This could easily go over in the Ukraine thread, but there seems to be so much denial over there that it might as well be here... I'm glad you posted it here - means I can contribute  What sort of denial are you talking about? That Brexit was a significant factor in the invasion of Ukraine? Surely even you don't believe that ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 7, 2022 18:15:56 GMT
That Brexit was a significant factor in the invasion of Ukraine? Surely even you don't believe that ? Well, of course not. Which is why precisely nobody has even vaguely suggested it. ...but, of course, you know that very well - so I can only conclude that you're just trying to divert attention from what you know to be the actual point being made.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 7, 2022 18:18:08 GMT
Sir Gavin!  The honours system has just been devalued by yet another notch. |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 7, 2022 18:22:07 GMT
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 7, 2022 18:40:53 GMT
Even Raab couldn't stifle his laughter during the Nick Ferrari interview clip in that article. The very best Raab could come up with was, "He served 5 years in cabinet". Oh dear....
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 7, 2022 18:46:55 GMT
Putin is getting excellent VfM from his investment in Johnson.
Not only does he get the destabilisation, he gets the comedy value, too.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 7, 2022 19:09:00 GMT
This could easily go over in the Ukraine thread, but there seems to be so much denial over there that it might as well be here... I wrote a post including this very excellent tweet thread yesterday. Deleted it after assessing the audience maybe wasn't ready. Let's see  The highlight for me is the attachment on part 5; Isabel Oakeshott's statement that her former besties, the single largest donor to the Leave campaign (Arron Banks) and his untrusty sidekick (Andy Wigmore) were acting as agents for the Russian state, including but not limited to discussing Brexit and personal enrichment opportunities with senior Russian officials, meeting members of Russian intelligence services to pass them sensitive documents and more. And on the off chance anyone's yet to read it: isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CCS207_CCS0221966010-001_Russia-Report-v02-Web_Accessible.pdfAttachments:
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 19, 2022 20:37:13 GMT
Boris Johnson is desperate. And corrupt. And is most definitely hiding something.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 19, 2022 22:56:33 GMT
Boris Johnson is desperate. And corrupt. And is most definitely hiding something. That's a cheap and disgusting dig from Tusk, taken out of context. Johnson was talking about the importance of freedom vs. oppression and people being able to decide for themselves, and offered the Brexit referendum as a recent example of freedom at work in the UK. I urge everyone to listen to the full 1m30, and not just the twisted sanctimonious tweet of some sore loser. Now is not the time to be nit-picking in the west and Tusk should be ashamed. Far from offending, I thought Boris' words were surprisingly statesmanlike.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 19, 2022 23:28:29 GMT
"...your words offend Ukranians...."  ?? He is utterly wrong as particularly during this war where the Ukranians have been crying out for decent military kit and we have obliged in spades. Moreover is a historic departing of one nation from the EU more important than current events which could turn into WW3 ? What is this guy thinking ? How do his comments affect Western unity against the threat and madness the Ukranians and the rest of the world currently face? P.S. Even Tim Farron the previous leader of the Lib Dems seems to think Tusk is wrong. |
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 19, 2022 23:58:41 GMT
"...your words offend Ukranians...." ?? He is utterly wrong as particularly during this war where the Ukranians have been crying out for decent military kit and we have obliged in spades. Moreover is a historic departing of one nation from the EU more important than current events which could turn into WW3 ? What is this guy thinking ? How do his comments affect Western unity against the threat and madness the Ukranians and the rest of the world currently face? P.S. Even Tim Farron the previous leader of the Lib Dems seems to think Tusk is wrong. Pretty sure Farron is agreeing with Tusk ... we don't think Brexit is same as the war.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 20, 2022 10:52:05 GMT
Boris Johnson is desperate. And corrupt. And is most definitely hiding something. I am neither surprised that Johnson said that - or that his apologists fail to see the issues with it. Meanwhile, even Sunak is saying "Well, of course he didn't MEAN it, nobody thinks they're comparable..."There is one very big similarity between the two... Russian money.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 20, 2022 13:21:16 GMT
Boris Johnson is desperate. And corrupt. And is most definitely hiding something. I am neither surprised that Johnson said that - or that his apologists fail to see the issues with it. Meanwhile, even Sunak is saying "Well, of course he didn't MEAN it, nobody thinks they're comparable..."Sunak actually said, "I can tell you, categorically the Prime Minister does not think that the situation in Ukraine and Brexit are directly comparable. Of course they’re not, no one would say that they are, he was making some general comments about freedom in different guises.” It's troubling that some people struggle to see an example of freedom for what it is. It's almost as if they are determined to elide the two events, however desperate and foolish that makes them sound. Boris even made it clear in his speech that our referendum was one example of freedom at work. Only the disingenuous would take that example as equating in any way to the plight of the Ukrainian people right now.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 20, 2022 14:05:30 GMT
It's almost as if they are determined to elide the two events, however desperate and foolish that makes them sound. Well, quite. But that's about what we've come to expect of this PM, isn't it? Here's a verbatim transcript of the "full 1m30" link you provided above to the unedited excerpt, from the Grauniad's website...
"This is a turning point for the world. It's a moment of choice. It's a choice between freedom and oppression. And I know there are some around the world, even in some western governments, who invoke what they call realpolitik and who say we're better off making accommodations with tyranny. I have to say I believe they are profoundly wrong and that to try to renormalise relations with Putin after this, as we did in 2014, would be to make exactly the same mistake again. (applause) and that is why (applause) and that is why Putin must fail. And I know that it's the instinct of the people of this country, like the people of Ukraine, to choose freedom every time. I can give you a couple of famous recent examples. When the British people voted for Brexit in such large numbers I don't believe it was because they were remotely hostile to foreigners. It was because they wanted to be free. To do things differently for this country, to be able to run it."No, no elision there at all... No attempt to draw parallels beyond a basic and absolutely non-specific "freedom" analogy... No, heavens, no. Realpolitik, btw, is defined by the Cambridge dictionary as... "practical politics, decided more by the urgent needs of the country, political party, etc., than by morals or principles"dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/realpolitikPerhaps you'd also be so kind as to name the western governments he was referring to, and give examples of where they are - as he states - letting practical politics override morals and principles, thereby giving Putin a break...?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 20, 2022 14:05:56 GMT
Apparently Ukraine's ambassador was in the audience.
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