adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 11, 2023 9:50:09 GMT
It's essential for this country's future that it learn from the reasons why people voted to leave. The left-behind didn't trust politicians. Fair enough. Except they then decided to take the side of the ones who left them behind, rather than the ones with experience and the will to try and get them out of it. Because forrin.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 15:01:05 GMT
to be fair, most people were influenced by Murdoch and the idiot Farrish (who I've always assumed was a "useful idiot" for the Kremlin)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 11, 2023 17:03:45 GMT
Sure. But they believe what they WANT to believe.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 26, 2023 21:06:02 GMT
Not really about logistics, although a bit in passing but.... An article in the times about the " Festival of Brexit", sorry "Unboxed", event and its total lack of value for money/impact. An interesting note from the report is that a third of its "audience" (those that "engaged" with it) are counted from the regular viewers that watched a clip of some part of it on Countryfile. Some selected lines: "The Commons DCMS select committee requested a National Audit Office (NAO) investigation into the festival with the Conservative MP Julian Knight, who was then the committee’s chairman, describing the it last month as a “monumental cock-up of gargantuan proportions”."The unofficial “Festival of Brexit” name deterred some of the country’s largest cultural organisations from taking part. " Colour me surprised. but the real treat lay in the online reader comments: "It was a splendid idea. We burned effigies of Polish plumbers, French food importers, remainers and experts. Hundreds of trucks staged a park-up with a large sign saying “Dover 25mi”, whole families partook in a form-filling bonanza in multicoloured triplicates, had their fingerprints taken, and crayons were distributed for the kids and the kippers. There were concrete obstacle courses, a bus with imaginary numbers for the mathematically illiterate, another one with simplistic slogans for the economically illiterate, a giant sinkhole marked “Benefits Thereof” into which Jacob Rees-Mogg urged happy revellers to throw their common sense and their bank notes, and as a fitting finale, a tombola was organised where one lucky winner collected an Austin Allegro Sovereign, and the runner up got two of those.
Epic, it was."Acknowledgments: Raja Charles
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 27, 2023 8:11:15 GMT
Can someone pointed me if there is any progress report since UK left EU on 2020/21? It has been 2/3 years and I expect at least 1 from the gov.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 27, 2023 10:09:48 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 27, 2023 16:15:38 GMT
Those who are utterly against Brexit (not just on the forum but across the political scene) - what are the aims now of continuing to cry after the milk has been spilled ? Is it solely to feel better or is there a view that one day soon there could be another referendum.
I find it interesting that Starmer who was what I would consider an arch remainer to the extent of frustrating democracy is likely to be the next PM and does not now express any such referendum views anymore.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 27, 2023 16:29:19 GMT
Those who are utterly against Brexit (not just on the forum but across the political scene) - what are the aims now of continuing to cry after the milk has been spilled ? Is it solely to feel better or is there a view that one day soon there could be another referendum. I find it interesting that Starmer who was what I would consider an arch remainer to the extent of frustrating democracy is likely to be the next PM and does not now express any such referendum views anymore. I personally think that the Lib Dems vow "that we will cancel BREXIT" in 2019 was in part a reason for them losing seats, to take such an anti democratic standpoint cost them dearly. but then I think Parliament as a whole is anti democratic, what percentage of the UK population would support the reintroduction of capital punishment for the worst cases of murder etc.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 27, 2023 17:16:14 GMT
Those who are utterly against Brexit (not just on the forum but across the political scene) - what are the aims now of continuing to cry after the milk has been spilled ? Is it solely to feel better or is there a view that one day soon there could be another referendum. I find it interesting that Starmer who was what I would consider an arch remainer to the extent of frustrating democracy is likely to be the next PM and does not now express any such referendum views anymore. I don't expect there to be another referendum in my lifetime. But I do hope and believe that the extreme Brexit position that the present government is locked into, and is far from what the electorate were told they were voting for, will be replaced by something more sensible and pragmatic. And that is all that David Lammy's speech and Chris Grey's latest blog, are about. How long it will take I have no idea.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 27, 2023 19:23:25 GMT
Those who are utterly against Brexit (not just on the forum but across the political scene) - what are the aims now of continuing to cry after the milk has been spilled ? Is it solely to feel better or is there a view that one day soon there could be another referendum. I find it interesting that Starmer who was what I would consider an arch remainer to the extent of frustrating democracy is likely to be the next PM and does not now express any such referendum views anymore. I don't expect a referendum for at least 20 years. If one was held tomorrow I'd doubt that I'd vote to apply for membership: the UK had a pretty privileged position within the EU having managed to get various exemptions/rebates and goodness knows what over the years. If membership of the Euro remained a condition of accession to the EU, then I doubt you'd get a majority even if as now (it would seem) a majority say that leaving was a mistake. For the future health and wealth of this country, our relationship with the EU - both in trading and political terms - needs to move something far healthier and productive than where we are now. That can only happen if the failures and shortcomings of our current post Brexit arrangements are recognised and acknowledged. If the primary proponents of Brexit remain in power, then they also need to 'own' those problems and graft to fix them: you can't fix what you don't recognise is broke. The country cannot afford for those people to be holding the levers of power while continuing to live in the la la promised land of post Brexit sunlit uplands. You may see the repeating of the narrative of post brexit failures as 'crying after the milk has been spilt'. I see it as trying to continually highlight aspects that are causing significant damage to the country in the hope that it will promote action to fix them, and make it more politically acceptable to fix them (which will undoubtedly entail crossing some of the ERGs red lines).
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 27, 2023 20:37:45 GMT
We (and the rest of the western world) are just taking stock after two years of paralysis compromised by war in the Ukraine and associated energy problems (compounded by a ridiculous green energy wet dream). In the circumstances we are doing very well (compared to all lot of EU members). My investments reflect this and are doing well.
The West will sort itself out in time and reach out for whatever trade its various markets need . Being tied to the restrictions within that arcane behemoth is not in our long term interest.
I had a quick trip across Belgium earlier and was prettu appalled by the state of Namur and Tournai compared to similar in the UK.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 28, 2023 9:10:57 GMT
Those who are utterly against Brexit (not just on the forum but across the political scene) - what are the aims now of continuing to cry after the milk has been spilled ? Is it solely to feel better or is there a view that one day soon there could be another referendum. Three years after leaving, and we're still having to explain these most basic things... Do you really think Brexit was ever some kind of simply black-white, in-out thing? The vote was. That was most of the problem. "Remain" had an obvious shape. Continue as we were, a core member of the planet's most successful supranational body. But there was simply no hint as to what "leave" would look like. Anybody with any clue knew that there were SO MANY OPTIONS, right from the hardest of the hard to the softest of the soft. Before the vote, even people like Farage and Hannan were unequivocal that we should stay within the single market and customs union. www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4y6BVPNe50As soon as the vote was done, May ruled that out in a single "red line" in a party conference speech - No ECJ. The ECJ is the arbitrator for every single European supranational body. No ECJ meant no role for the UK in any of them. That one throwaway meant that nothing but a very, very hard leave was possible - and that's what we've got. The only harder option would have been to have no trade deal with the EU at all. Then she started the two-year clock before negotiations had even started. Do you know what the only difference is between "May's deal", which was so toxic to Johnson that he resigned as Foreign Minister, so toxic to the ERG that they voted their own party down in the largest government defeat ever, delaying their beloved exit by nine months, and Johnson's "oven ready deal"? The NI Protocol. Yes, the one that is now apparently so abysmal and destructive. The only other option was to break the Good Friday Agreement, which the US made VERY clear was not an option. What's the NI Protocol do? It keeps NI in the single market and customs union... There has to be a border somewhere between inside and outside the single market and customs union, right? And the Republic of Ireland is inside. So if GB is outside, then is that border down the Irish Sea, between GB and NI (Protocol), or a land border between NI and RoI (breaks GFA's requirement for borderless island)? May's backstop was to keep GB inside the customs union in the short term, breaking her own red line, buying time to figure a long-term option. Let's not forget that's the same man who is now on course to repeal massive swathes of legislation, rolling back half a century of environmental and employment protection amongst many other things - with no replacement for it - simply on the grounds of it having been decided together with the neighbours instead of on our own... bills.parliament.uk/bills/3340
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 28, 2023 9:23:20 GMT
Those who are utterly against Brexit (not just on the forum but across the political scene) - what are the aims now of continuing to cry after the milk has been spilled ? Is it solely to feel better or is there a view that one day soon there could be another referendum. I find it interesting that Starmer who was what I would consider an arch remainer to the extent of frustrating democracy is likely to be the next PM and does not now express any such referendum views anymore. To fix it. It would be a mistake to equate "Remainer" with a confirmed wish to rejoin any time soon. But by all means equate it with "angry, and recognise how much damage has been done, and continues to be done, to the country".
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 28, 2023 10:37:35 GMT
...with a large element of "We warned you this would happen..."
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warn
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Post by warn on Jan 28, 2023 12:09:13 GMT
...with a large element of "We warned you this would happen..."...and a fair degree of masochistic schadenfreude.
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