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Post by Ace on Apr 14, 2021 22:49:52 GMT
Nice post df, though you've made me look lazy by tabulating your position and adding useful comments. I may copy your format if can find the time. It's interesting that we have very similar opinions on the platforms that we have in common. I take comfort in that. Also interesting that we have both independently settled on a self imposed 20% platform maximum. It strikes me that I seem to have a higher risk tolerance. I wonder if that's because I came to P2P later than you did, which means that I haven't personally suffered from the same number of higher rate platform failures 🤔 (purely lucky timing on my part). Glad to see that you seem to have read the runes correctly and avoided major losses from the dodgier platforms. I'd be interested to hear if there's any specific reason that you've avoided CrowdProperty and Kuflink. Very similar platforms in many ways. I'm guessing that your keenness for diversification is why HNW Lending, SoMo, CapitalRise and Proplend don't feature, or is it due to an aversion to property secured loans? Obviously, feel free to ignore the questions if you consider them impertinent.
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Post by df on Apr 15, 2021 11:04:04 GMT
Nice post df , though you've made me look lazy by tabulating your position and adding useful comments. I may copy your format if can find the time. It's interesting that we have very similar opinions on the platforms that we have in common. I take comfort in that. Also interesting that we have both independently settled on a self imposed 20% platform maximum. It strikes me that I seem to have a higher risk tolerance. I wonder if that's because I came to P2P later than you did, which means that I haven't personally suffered from the same number of higher rate platform failures 🤔 (purely lucky timing on my part). Glad to see that you seem to have read the runes correctly and avoided major losses from the dodgier platforms. I'd be interested to hear if there's any specific reason that you've avoided CrowdProperty and Kuflink. Very similar platforms in many ways. I'm guessing that your keenness for diversification is why HNW Lending, SoMo, CapitalRise and Proplend don't feature, or is it due to an aversion to property secured loans? Obviously, feel free to ignore the questions if you consider them impertinent. Yes, coming to p2p later and avoiding a number of platforms that are now in administration definitely helps the health of your portfolio, but also the ability to invest on platforms with higher minimum per loan. I’m a small investor and this is the main reason I’m not in some of the platforms you have listed. In manual lending, the highest investment in a single loan I’ve ever made was £500 (Lendy’s DFL005), far outside my comfort zone. If I go for 1k per loan investments I will be very poorly diversified. Yes, property secured loans from Lendy, Col, BM, FS, MT had left bad taste in my mouth. However, I understand that not all property lending is like this. Can’t judge everyone by “Lendy” standard. Kuflink (£100 per loan) is within my capability. When I found out about Kuflink I was already in 19 platforms and had no desire to expand any further. At the peak my p2p pot was approaching 28% of my available cash and I didn’t want to expand that. I don’t really want to go over 20% any more. Now it is 15%, so I’ve got some capacity for a new platform (or two). Kuflink is the next on my list to try. I thought CP was £500 per loan (outside my comfort zone), but looking at website again I read that if I use Autoinvest I can spread £500 across multiple projects, which could be a comfortable start for me. Can this practically work?
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Post by Ace on Apr 15, 2021 11:17:38 GMT
Nice post df , though you've made me look lazy by tabulating your position and adding useful comments. I may copy your format if can find the time. It's interesting that we have very similar opinions on the platforms that we have in common. I take comfort in that. Also interesting that we have both independently settled on a self imposed 20% platform maximum. It strikes me that I seem to have a higher risk tolerance. I wonder if that's because I came to P2P later than you did, which means that I haven't personally suffered from the same number of higher rate platform failures 🤔 (purely lucky timing on my part). Glad to see that you seem to have read the runes correctly and avoided major losses from the dodgier platforms. I'd be interested to hear if there's any specific reason that you've avoided CrowdProperty and Kuflink. Very similar platforms in many ways. I'm guessing that your keenness for diversification is why HNW Lending, SoMo, CapitalRise and Proplend don't feature, or is it due to an aversion to property secured loans? Obviously, feel free to ignore the questions if you consider them impertinent. Yes, coming to p2p later and avoiding a number of platforms that are now in administration definitely helps the health of your portfolio, but also the ability to invest on platforms with higher minimum per loan. I’m a small investor and this is the main reason I’m not in some of the platforms you have listed. In manual lending, the highest investment in a single loan I’ve ever made was £500 (Lendy’s DFL005), far outside my comfort zone. If I go for 1k per loan investments I will be very poorly diversified. Yes, property secured loans from Lendy, Col, BM, FS, MT had left bad taste in my mouth. However, I understand that not all property lending is like this. Can’t judge everyone by “Lendy” standard. Kuflink (£100 per loan) is within my capability. When I found out about Kuflink I was already in 19 platforms and had no desire to expand any further. At the peak my p2p pot was approaching 28% of my available cash and I didn’t want to expand that. I don’t really want to go over 20% any more. Now it is 15%, so I’ve got some capacity for a new platform (or two). Kuflink is the next on my list to try. I thought CP was £500 per loan (outside my comfort zone), but looking at website again I read that if I use Autoinvest I can spread £500 across multiple projects, which could be a comfortable start for me. Can this practically work? Thanks for explaining. Yes, you can invest from £50 per loan on CP using autoinvest (and very small loans like today's can result in even lower allocations. I got just £30 on one of my accounts today). Kuflink has very low minimums in the manual investing product, usually below £10.
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Post by df on Apr 15, 2021 12:10:11 GMT
Yes, coming to p2p later and avoiding a number of platforms that are now in administration definitely helps the health of your portfolio, but also the ability to invest on platforms with higher minimum per loan. I’m a small investor and this is the main reason I’m not in some of the platforms you have listed. In manual lending, the highest investment in a single loan I’ve ever made was £500 (Lendy’s DFL005), far outside my comfort zone. If I go for 1k per loan investments I will be very poorly diversified. Yes, property secured loans from Lendy, Col, BM, FS, MT had left bad taste in my mouth. However, I understand that not all property lending is like this. Can’t judge everyone by “Lendy” standard. Kuflink (£100 per loan) is within my capability. When I found out about Kuflink I was already in 19 platforms and had no desire to expand any further. At the peak my p2p pot was approaching 28% of my available cash and I didn’t want to expand that. I don’t really want to go over 20% any more. Now it is 15%, so I’ve got some capacity for a new platform (or two). Kuflink is the next on my list to try. I thought CP was £500 per loan (outside my comfort zone), but looking at website again I read that if I use Autoinvest I can spread £500 across multiple projects, which could be a comfortable start for me. Can this practically work? Thanks for explaining. Yes, you can invest from £50 per loan on CP using autoinvest (and very small loans like today's can result in even lower allocations. I got just £30 on one of my accounts today). Kuflink has very low minimums in the manual investing product, usually below £10. Thank you. I didn't know this. I'll probably give these two a go in near future.
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dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Apr 15, 2021 17:30:50 GMT
My P2p Portfolio. In order of worth.. Assets Capitol. Reducing via repayments until new lending starts then reassess on Quality Ratesetter (closed and will be missed) Funds now waiting in FSCS protection, LP, and vanguard mainly. Ablrate. Holding steady.Reinvesting repayments. Crowd Property. Growing slowly, mainly through Auto invest facility. (Excess goes to LP) Kuflink. Growing steadily with repayments and adding new funds when loans tempt me. Loanpad. Growing daily as used as a holding tank for repayments looking for new homes. Capitol Rise. Growing slowly when loans are available. Blend. Growing slowly when loans are available usually via autoinvest. Somo. (Not quite p2p) Growing weekly as loan flow is quite regular. picking 1st charge only loans what suits me. May well become biggest platform. Lendinvest (not quite p2p) Growing slowly, but steadily Axia Funder. Increasing when investments are available. Qardus. Growing when loans are available. Assets Exchange. Holding steady, happy to increase if im tempted Unbolted. Reinvesting repayments when availability. Lendary. (not quite p2p) newest platform, less than 6 months. Looking/ glancing towards proplend and hnw.
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Post by df on Apr 15, 2021 20:31:20 GMT
My P2p Portfolio. In order of worth.. Assets Capitol. Reducing via repayments until new lending starts then reassess on Quality Ratesetter (closed and will be missed) Funds now waiting in FSCS protection, LP, and vanguard mainly. Ablrate. Holding steady.Reinvesting repayments. Crowd Property. Growing slowly, mainly through Auto invest facility. (Excess goes to LP) Kuflink. Growing steadily with repayments and adding new funds when loans tempt me. Loanpad. Growing daily as used as a holding tank for repayments looking for new homes. Capitol Rise. Growing slowly when loans are available. Blend. Growing slowly when loans are available usually via autoinvest. Somo. (Not quite p2p) Growing weekly as loan flow is quite regular. picking 1st charge only loans what suits me. May well become biggest platform. Lendinvest (not quite p2p) Growing slowly, but steadily Axia Funder. Increasing when investments are available. Qardus. Growing when loans are available. Assets Exchange. Holding steady, happy to increase if im tempted Unbolted. Reinvesting repayments when availability. Lendary. (not quite p2p) newest platform, less than 6 months. Looking/ glancing towards proplend and hnw. I'm curious how people reinvesting their returns on Ablrate these days. I did it in the past because there were plenty of discounts and at par trade, but now almost everything is at hefty premium... Or do people hold on to their repayments in Abl cash account until next loan (or another tranche of existing loan) comes in?
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Post by df on Apr 15, 2021 21:03:31 GMT
Kuflink has very low minimums in the manual investing product, usually below £10. Looking at their front page, it says "from as little as £100". Have they changed the minimum but didn't update the website?
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dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 616
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Post by dave4 on Apr 15, 2021 21:17:38 GMT
My P2p Portfolio. In order of worth.. Assets Capitol. Reducing via repayments until new lending starts then reassess on Quality Ratesetter (closed and will be missed) Funds now waiting in FSCS protection, LP, and vanguard mainly. Ablrate. Holding steady.Reinvesting repayments. Crowd Property. Growing slowly, mainly through Auto invest facility. (Excess goes to LP) Kuflink. Growing steadily with repayments and adding new funds when loans tempt me. Loanpad. Growing daily as used as a holding tank for repayments looking for new homes. Capitol Rise. Growing slowly when loans are available. Blend. Growing slowly when loans are available usually via autoinvest. Somo. (Not quite p2p) Growing weekly as loan flow is quite regular. picking 1st charge only loans what suits me. May well become biggest platform. Lendinvest (not quite p2p) Growing slowly, but steadily Axia Funder. Increasing when investments are available. Qardus. Growing when loans are available. Assets Exchange. Holding steady, happy to increase if im tempted Unbolted. Reinvesting repayments when availability. Lendary. (not quite p2p) newest platform, less than 6 months. Looking/ glancing towards proplend and hnw. I'm curious how people reinvesting their returns on Ablrate these days. I did it in the past because there were plenty of discounts and at par trade, but now almost everything is at hefty premium... Or do people hold on to their repayments in Abl cash account until next loan (or another tranche of existing loan) comes in? I use a mixture of sm bids at a modest premium, and with a small ££ waiting on platform, and replenish when needed, and remove other ££ to LP, pending a new loan or sm replenish. requires daily platform checks so a pita. Also like you have noticed bargains are getting few and far between.
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Post by Ace on Apr 15, 2021 22:57:37 GMT
Kuflink has very low minimums in the manual investing product, usually below £10. Looking at their front page, it says "from as little as £100". Have they changed the minimum but didn't update the website? There's a £100 minimum to get started on the platform, and a £100 minimum per investment in the Auto/ ISA accounts. From Kuflink's FAQ page: EDIT: I reinvested some repayments in a new loan today. It stated a minimum investment of £3.41.
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Post by roxanamohammadian on Apr 27, 2021 13:37:14 GMT
As it's a quiet day for me and the first quarter of the year has passed I thought I would provide a brief update of how my P2P portfolio is progressing. My capital weighted average XIRR has risen from 6.44% to 7.25%. Mainly due to moving funds from lower to higher paying platforms, but partly due to escaping from some of my least favoured platforms (British Pearl, Fund Ourselves and Ratesetter [ I accept that I'm in the minority for not liking RS 🙄]). I've also made a major breakthrough in my spreadsheet skills, in that I've worked out how to combine the data from seperate sheets for each platform into a single total portfolio XIRR. The answer is that my true portfolio XIRR is currently 7.29%, which makes me wonder why I bothered since it's almost the same as the rough-and-ready capital weighted average. I'm expecting that this will continue to rise as more bullet loans redeem. I've also managed to reduce my maximum exposure to any one platform below 20% of my portfolio 😊. My largest platform is now ABLrate at 17.3%. Loanpad is in second place at 14.8%. Crowdproperty is third at 11.65 %. No other platform has more than 7%. The remaining significant platforms, in order of size are: AxiaFunder Assetz Capital Qardus Proplend SoMo Brickowner CapitalRise Kuflink Unbolted HNW Lending Assetz Exchange Landlordinvest I've now got the majority of last year's ISA allowance sat in Nationwide while I decide which platforms to allocate it to (currently considering CP, PL, CR, UB, LI and perhaps K when they allow self-select in an ISA. And before you ask roxanamohammadian , I would have considered Blend if they had an ISA 😉). I held it back incase there was a major dip in global S&S prices, but can't bring myself to add to my VWRL at is current all time high, so I'll take the 7%+ that I can achieve from P2P and chuck this year's ISA allowance in VWRL if the dip comes. Haha thanks Ace Watch this space and we will certainly consider plans to introduce an ISA in the future. Have a wonderful day, Roxana Capital at risk. Please read the full warning on our website.
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Post by Ace on Jul 9, 2021 20:14:50 GMT
I've just updated my stats, and since we're now at the year's halfway point I thought I'd provide an update on how things are going for me. My total P2P portfolio XIRR has increased from 7.29% to 7.52% over the last quarter. Which I'm very pleased with as I'm 3 1/2 years into my P2P journey now, so there's quite a drag of previously low paying platforms to overcome. The rise is due to more of the bullet loans repaying and my decision to exit most of the lower paying platforms. Plenty of scope for this to go higher in future. This time I've decided to give a list of my top paying platforms, I.e. those with the highest combined returns over all the accounts I hold including any bonus payments and cashback. I've only included those with overall returns above 10% per year, since this is a best-returns list. Platform | XIRR | Comment | Kuflink | 17.26% | A bit of a cheat here as its dominated by some early referral bonuses when they were much more generous. Not sustainable | Qardus | 16.59% | A very new platform, but already a star performer for me. Should go a fair bit higher if I don't get defaults | Assetz Exchange | 14.55% | Mostly driven by recently inflated property prices. Its impossible to buy anything of value here unless you're a Premium Investor. Not sustainable. | Robocash | 12.36% | Was a good earner for me but I'm exiting euro platforms. Nearly out now. | Ablrate | 12.16% | The best earner for me in terms of total profits It's still my largest platform. | Assetz Capital | 10.17% | Mostly earnt in MLA. I'm reducing fast here as loans repay as hardly any new loans of any interest to me. | Proplend | 10.04% | I'm still adding to this platform because I like it a lot. I'm mostly in Tranches B & C, but not easy to get funds deployed. |
I'm expecting Kuflink, Assetz Capital and Assetz Exchange to slide below the 10% mark over time. I'm expecting AxiaFunder and Connective Lending to eventually return above 10%, but too early for either of them yet. Unbolted, Landlordinvest and SoMo are bubbling just under the 10% mark. I expect that's where they'll stay as I don't think they have the potential to break 10%. That's fine though. They are all earning their keep in the portfolio and are driving the overall return higher.
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Post by danraj on Jul 12, 2021 15:14:32 GMT
Nice to see your P2P portfolio working well for you.
Having exited a few platforms, maybe you would be inclined to give us, Rebuildingsociety.com a try? We’ve made several improvements in recent years and our lifetime average is above 6% see our outcomes blog posts. Obviously this may vary in future.
Risk adverse lenders can even use the P2P buyback guarantee, to protect their capital, which as you know, is otherwise at risk.
It would be good to have you as part of our community.
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Post by danraj on Jul 12, 2021 23:04:30 GMT
Happy to pick up privately.
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Post by Ace on Jul 13, 2021 19:50:01 GMT
Hi danraj , I've looked at Rebs a couple of times in the past and decided against it. I don't keep records on platforms I've rejected so I'm not certain why, but recall that ISA fees were an issue for me. I also recall that the platform didn't work well on my android tablet. Anyway, since you've prompted me I decided to take another look. My initial thoughts are: There's obviously been a platform refresh since I last looked (can't remember when that was) and it's much more pleasing on the eye than I recall. Tick It seems to format correctly on my android tablet. Tick The initial thoughts on the mechanics of the platform from a fairly experienced P2P'er having lent on 35 different platforms is: "wow that looks complicated". That's not necessarily a problem for me; I quite enjoy digging in the weeds of a platform to see how it works, but I can see why less experienced or time-short lenders might give it a miss and move on to one of many other platforms. Yep, as I thought, those ISA fees are still there. I'm sure you will tell me that the fees are reasonable, but I'm not aware of any of the platforms I've tried so far charging a monthly ISA fee, and only ABLrate charges a transfer-in fee (and even they waive the fee if its over a certain amount). If I wanted to test the platform with a £1000 ISA transfer I'd need to earn 5.2% in the first year just to breakeven! The most concerning thing for me is the info on your stats page. There's no info as to what units Total Loss and Total Gains are measured in (I'm assuming £k). I think some text to describe these tables would be useful. Regardless, the combined figures show that Total Loss is roughly half the Total Gains. That tells me that one's returns are likely to be extremely variable, so having the necessary skills (or luck) to pick the good loans is key. That implies that it might need a considerable amount of time to allocate to loan DD. It certainly isn't the case that you can trust ReBs' risk assessment as the loans that you rate as the least risky (A+) have made the worst returns, I.e. 13.3% loss on average. That may be a little unfair as there are only 4 loans in that category, but even so! Stats for the last 18 months look encouraging, but is that just because defaults tend to happen later in a loan's life? There's a row at the top of the Overview By Risk Grade table that has no entry in the App Risk column. I couldn't work out what that represented. I am tempted to give ReBs a try with a small sum to take a look from inside the fence as I know others have had a reasonable return, but it probably won't be via an ISA.
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Post by danraj on Jul 13, 2021 21:17:07 GMT
Thanks Ace - you've made my day! It is one of the more feature-rich platforms and with that comes complexity, but it doesn't have to. Lenders can setup bidding rules and "set and forgett" but, for the reasons you observe, active lenders can optimise returns by being selective and prompt to react to updates. Thank for the advice on the ISA fees. We don't take a margin on the loans, so lenders get 100% of what the borrower repays. Your observation of the stats info is correct, historical losses are approx half the profits. But there is a borad normal distribution of lender net returns (did you see this chart on the stats page). This evidences that you need to be unlucky to lose more than half your profits and that if you pick well you can expect to keep most profits. Last 18 months have been really conservative for us. That row represents privately syndicated loans inaccessible to the public. I'll review how we present this data. Please do open an account, your feedback is most welcome. We just completed a loan today, we should have more on the primary marketplace later this week. The secondary market has a lot of premium trading at the moment. I'm pretty confident that after a year of trialling us, we'll be in your top 3 preferred platforms
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